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Post by elliott on Dec 18, 2017 21:51:58 GMT -5
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (WWF - 11/17/1996)
A match that sort of goes without saying. There are a ton of people who I respect that think this is better than the Mania match. I'm not sure it is, but I could be convinced. This has to be the closest the WWF ever got to a classic NWA World Title match right? From the pacing and build to the moves themselves. This felt like Bret's best NWA Traveling Champ match had the territories survived and he carried the torch for Flair like so many people like to fantasize about. Another match that might not make my list, but it wouldn't shock me if someone had it in the top 10 or even #1 overall.
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Post by Cap on Jan 3, 2018 17:16:29 GMT -5
Second
I have thought a lot about it and really looked at it. I still think the Mania match is better, but I completely get why there are people that prefer this. The latter half of this match particularly is just really really next level good. Hart's technique and Austin's sort of semi-reckless movements were made for one another and they build such drama around that in this match. This has a real shot at the back end of my list and I imagine we will see it really high on some people's lists.
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Post by Grimmas on Jan 4, 2018 11:17:42 GMT -5
I have talked a lot about this match in the past and it’s my favourite match of all time. What I love about this is that it feels like a love letter to old school wrestling and the end of an era. Jim Ross tells the story perfectly, Austin knows Bret and uses his moves through out the match. One of my all-time favourite wrestling moments is Bret Hart’s come back in this match where he wins a first fight after losing one earlier. The emotion here is priceless.
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Post by fadu on Jan 4, 2018 17:28:32 GMT -5
I will try to rewatch this match soon but I remember taking issue with Austin's arm selling in this match. Enough to make me a bit frustrated about what's clearly a fantastic match without the issue.
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Post by microstatistics on May 2, 2018 1:24:21 GMT -5
Not as good as the WM 13 all time classic but this remains an excellent match. Very minimalist match, reminds of Choshu/Hashimoto in some ways. Austin was the key figure here as the aggressive in your face rising star attacking with great focus while Bret added lots of cool little veteran touches. An outstanding, really clever finish with Bret pulling a Fujiwara and using Austin's bullheadedness to beat Austin.
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Post by stunninggrover on May 23, 2018 11:06:46 GMT -5
1996-11-17 Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (WWF Survivor Series @ Madison Square Garden in New York City, NY) This was Bret Hart’s first televised match since WrestleMania XII. Steve Austin was getting more and more popular in late 1996. This match was intriguing from start to finish. There were some great brawling moments outside the ring. Great selling by both men. Austin applied the Million Dollar Dream, but Bret countered it into a pinning combination. Bret pinned Austin. Best WWF match of 1996. This match will be in my top 100.
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Post by superstarsleeze on Jul 29, 2018 9:14:39 GMT -5
I think Bret had better NWA touring champ matches with 1-2-3 Kid and Bob Backlund. Hell, I think the Shawn Ironman match is better than this. I get a lot of other people love it and that's cool. Put me in the like it but don't love it camp.
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - WWF Survivor Series 1996
Love the build to this match. Remember when they would take 2.5 months to build to a match. Nowadays they shoot their wad in one week and have nothing for the next three weeks of TV. Great job all around. Austin is such a great rival for the consummate pro wrestler in the Hitman. He is the foul-mouthed asshole. Bret Hart is the well-respected pro.
I think everyone was so busy trying to get Austin over in this match they kinda forgot to get heat during this match. I am going against the grain big time to say I thought this match was a little flat. Austin flipped off Bret at the outset and then the ref. Where the hell is the righteous indignation from JR & Vince. That is incredibly tasteless and classless. They kinda just give him a free pass. A RAKE OF THE EYES gets a that's clever remark from Vince and JR had his head so far up Austin's ass throughout this match that he couldn't be even bothered to mention it. Austin was trying to get heat goddamnit but the announcing was not helping. In the ring, I thought Bret's selling especially initially was really flat. I thought that really hurt Austin's heat. This is an MSG crowd that lost their mind over fucking Sid and in Bret Hart's return match they are quieter. Just weird.
The match was built around who was the better wrestler with Bret calling Austin the best wrestler in WWF at the time, clearly a dig at Shawn Michaels more than anything else. I thought the opening matwork was fine. It is not the way I would have gone. I think they could have done a more high energy shine to get crowd invested and it is Bret's return match have him come out hot. It is story I have said before, people who try to grind with Bret will lose because he is the best. Coming into this match (had not watched in a while just really remembered the finish), I was think Austin is a grinder so it will be interesting to see how he fares with the best. I think the lack of highspots early did hurt the heat not just at the beginning but throughout the match because the crowd would have been more into Bret. The first highspot, Stun Gun, was an excellent transition. Loved it. Bret was killing Austin on the mat and that Stun Gun changed everything. Thought Bret was flat in selling, which is weird. He is usually really good. Where is the coughing during the choking. First slugfest woke up the crowd and me. Austin wins, but shortly thereafter Bret takes back over. Bret has great hard hitting offense. Since Bret is the clear face against a clear heel and they are trying to put Austin over, he does not have much time on offense, but when he does, I think they are the best parts of this match. Austin throwing Bret into the Bret Bump off the bulldog was great psychology and showing that he did his homework. Austin giving Bret the high ground going for the superplex was stupid (in a good kayfabe way) and Bret making him pay was great with his iconic elbow. Austin rakes the eyes on backbreaker and I have already bitched about the commentary.
The best part of this match unsurprisingly is the brawl on the outside. These two are much better at brawling and that's why there Mania match is so much better. Bret's comeback on the outside is one of the few heated parts of the match as is Austin's catapult on Bret to the Spanish announce team and then him just leaping on Bret on the Spanish announcers. That was the chaos and energy the match needed. Austin is not a wrestler with a lot of offense. Which is fine, I have no problem with that. He was positioned to be wrestle on top for most of this match I really felt like he ran out of steam. I think there were ways where he could have tried to just get heat more often if he was going to run out of offense. The Ab Stretch but using the ropes is appreciated but the announcers and the crowd just did not seem to be reacting to usual heel tactics. I would have liked to see him ramp up the heat somehow. Bret winning the second slugfest felt electric. The match was great and I am nitpicking some stuff. It was just the match would go in and out of having a big fight feel. That second slugfest and Bret hitting the Stun Gun as revenge and piledriver made it have that feel. It just a lot of the stuff before it, didn't. Bret goes up top and Austin gets up there to stop him. Felt too quick. Loved Austin chopping the shit out of him though. That's what I mean everything was a little uneven for me. Superplex, great highspot. STUNNER! Kick out-> bold! Austin runs through a bunch of submissions so JR can finally exclaim how he was right from the outset that would be a submission match. Bret almost gets the Sharpshooter in a great spot. Austin goes for the Million Dollar Dream, but Bret kicks off the ropes and pins him in the hold. Which is a fantastic finish. Using Austin's tenacity against him.
All in all definitely a great match. You have two similar wrestlers in the sense that these guys like to grind. Bret clearly has the wider offensive arsenal. The thing Austin has going for him is that unbridled energy which I was reminded of when he broke Pillman's ankle in the lead up to this. He was like a rabid dog in there. His energy felt tempered here. It was missing that chaotic feel that he would bring to his matches. Austin clearly had Hart scouted which is great psychology. He was tenacious and was on Bret. His limited offensive range did hurt the match in my opinion because he was on top for so long. I thought he tried hard to get heat but when he was not getting it should have tried different things, maybe bumping or cheating more fiercely. I thought the heat was not at the level it should have been, but Bret's selling felt flat so he is partly to blame. I think Bret was selfless here by letting Austin get the majority of the match. He fought well from underneath. Ultimately it was the wily in-ring savvy of Bret that bested the tenacity of Austin, which is a great story. Just a match that has never really resonated with me even though lots of others really like it, but it is clearly a great match and an incredibly important one in Steve Austin's career. ****1/4
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Post by dkuchler31096 on Jun 6, 2019 13:58:36 GMT -5
Very technical and sound match here. I was watching this with a friend of mine who was surprised that Austin was on a similar level in the technical style of the match. Then its tease of what's to come with the brawl outside and the finish was well executed. Austin has this energy about him and I enjoyed how good Bret was. ****1/4
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Post by puropotsy on Jun 27, 2023 19:07:31 GMT -5
The March 1997 match is famous for Bret helping Austin transcend into superstardom but in this match Bret helped to establish him as a main eventer which was well-deserved. They matched up so well. Austin still had superb physicality at this point and Bret took a lot of punishment for him including being thrown under the bottom turnbuckle back-first into the ringpost. Austin getting the Million Dollar Dream on and Bret kicking backward off the ropes was a nice nod to his WM8 IC Title win over Piper as well. Amazing match.
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