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Post by lemming on Feb 24, 2023 10:11:24 GMT -5
Just seen that you smuggled a HHH match into your ***** list. A *one-hour* HHH match at that! (I actually remember loving that match, but I've not watched it for nigh on two decades. Is it worth revisiting? That's a lot of time to spend on Trips...)
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Post by elliott on Feb 24, 2023 11:14:01 GMT -5
It is soooooooo good. I watched it recently and it's one of the best WWE matches of that era.
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Post by [Darren] on Feb 24, 2023 11:49:11 GMT -5
I’ve found that I have very similar taste to you. Plus and minus a few things. But, I haven’t seen the match since it was live but I’m skeptical it’s that good.
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Post by elliott on Feb 24, 2023 12:17:38 GMT -5
I understand your hesitation. I think it's by far the best of the Rock vs HHH matches and one of the best matches of either wrestlers career. I'll C&P my running thoughts from the discord as I was watching it, not an in depth review by any means...
"Watching Rock vs HHH Iron Man. I started it & the Magnificent Ambersons at the same time to see if they match up. Who is the better director Pat Patterson or Orson Welles? HHH just poured water on his head but he did it nervously. This makes me think there is a deeper psychology at play Jr has called them "studs" and "thoroughbreds in the first 5 minutes He called HHH a "technical marvel" Good basic stuff early on Shawn Michaels is weird They even limit the crowd brawling here & stay within view of the camera. Good job. Even Shawn has limited all of his annoying tendencies except for those stupid short shorts 25+ minutes in and this has been an excellent match. HHH hits a really nice looking piledriver Rock & HHH just did a La Magistral cradle and it looked super duper smooth. Shockingly so JR called them studs again Shawn Michaels shirt has come untucked so it looks like he's got no pants on. We've entered crunch time. Rock blows his float over DDT but they cover for it well enough They don't really use as many booking tricks as you'd think. We're 44 minutes in and we just got the great spot where HHH hits Rock with a chair, takes the DQ & gets a pinfall. The crowd brawling was short. They go up the aisle and back but are back in the ring quickly. There's not a bunch of Shawn Michaels shenanigans. These two guys are just having an awesome match. A feather in both of their caps."
I liked it at the time but I thought it was going to be way more smoke & mirrors stuff.
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Post by Kadaveri on Feb 24, 2023 14:28:47 GMT -5
One day Elliott will admit that HHH actually was great in 2000-01.
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Post by elliott on Feb 24, 2023 19:33:28 GMT -5
I've been thinking about rewatching the Foley vs HHH Rumble match. I'm generally fairly positive on HHH prior to the quad injury. I don't think he's actively bad by any means. 97 has the fun feud with Foley, 98 has the fun feud with Rock. 99 is a tough year in-ring for everyone. I wasn't crazy about that NO Mercy match with Austin in 99 and can't say I've watched any other HHH 1999 matches snce 1999? The only issue I would really have with his 00/01 work is he's working with a lot of people I'm not thrilled about revisiting. Benoit, Jericho, Angle, Undertaker, Kane. That's tough. I'd be intersted in seeing how the Rikishi match holds up. If you were like "Check out this tag from 2000 with partner X vs APA" or something like that I'd watch it. Its not like he's Kawada
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Post by KB8 on Feb 25, 2023 4:57:34 GMT -5
The Rikishi match is definitely fun. That RAW 10-man from February 2000 is also the FUNNEST of all matches and I think he was pretty fine in it maybe? The Rumble match with Foley is one I've watched probably four times in the last 10 years, and every time going in I expect not to like it that much and every time I'm wrong. It's a magnificent Foley performance more than a Helmsley one, though. I actually watched a ton of the TV from 2000 years back and I came away from it thinking HHH was really good that year on TV and way less interesting on PPV where he had much more time to do stuff. Which is funny because elliott thinks the LONGEST of long matches that year is his best one. I still prefer HHH/Rock from Backlash as overbooked Attitude Era nonsense, but the Ironman will always shock me by how good it is.
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Post by [Darren] on Feb 25, 2023 7:29:33 GMT -5
I second that Raw 10-Man as a genuine blast.
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Post by nintendologic on Feb 25, 2023 11:53:52 GMT -5
I haven't watched the Rock/HHH Iron Man in several years, but I was always pleasantly surprised in the past by how well it held up. Definitely a contender for best ever 60-minute Iron Man match even with the screwed-up ending.
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Post by elliott on Feb 25, 2023 15:50:15 GMT -5
The Rikishi match is definitely fun. That RAW 10-man from February 2000 is also the FUNNEST of all matches and I think he was pretty fine in it maybe? The Rumble match with Foley is one I've watched probably four times in the last 10 years, and every time going in I expect not to like it that much and every time I'm wrong. It's a magnificent Foley performance more than a Helmsley one, though. I actually watched a ton of the TV from 2000 years back and I came away from it thinking HHH was really good that year on TV and way less interesting on PPV where he had much more time to do stuff. Which is funny because elliott thinks the LONGEST of long matches that year is his best one. I still prefer HHH/Rock from Backlash as overbooked Attitude Era nonsense, but the Ironman will always shock me by how good it is. What I like about the Iron man is how little Attitude Era nonsense there actually is outside of the finish. There's a short crowd brawling segment. A short trip up & down the aisle. But Shawn is the least over the top he's ever been and is actually a really neutral presence and we're saved from a lot of the ref bump leading to interference nonsense you'd usually get. Outside of a few things these guys have a really traditional feeling match. It's very odd. An outlier for the era and really for those two guys.
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Post by jmelite on Feb 25, 2023 16:23:26 GMT -5
I remember really enjoying that Iron Man Match. It's one I definitely need to re-watch for this project, but I really like a lot of Triple H matches especially from this era. He's got some really bad matches in his career, obviously, but I think he was on more often than not from 2000 up until his quad tear.
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Post by elliott on May 14, 2023 19:14:13 GMT -5
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Post by elliott on Jun 30, 2023 23:10:39 GMT -5
Here's my GME Top 100 Version 2023:
100. Hulk Hogan & Dennis Rodman vs Lex Luger & The Giant (WCW Bash at the Beach - 7/13/97) 99. Andy Kaufman vs Jimmy Hart (CWA - 7/11/83) 98. El Dandy vs Pirata Morgan (Hair vs Hair - EMLL - 9/23/88) 97. Bruno Sammartino vs Ken Patera (Guest Ref Gorilla Monsoon - WWWF - 3/7/77) 96. Shinya Hashimoto vs Naoya Ogawa (NJPW - 10/11/99) 95. Jackie Fargo vs Jerry Lawler (Dogfight Match - NWA Mid-America - 9/20/76) 94. Jerry Lawler & Randy Savage vs Rick Rude & King Kong Bundy (No DQ - CWA - 9/17/84) 93. Terry Funk vs Abdullah the Butcher (AJPW - 7/15/78) 92. El Hijo del Santo vs Negro Casas (Hair vs Hair - CMLL - 9/19/97) 91. Hulk Hogan & Roddy Piper vs Paul Orndorff & Harley Race (WWF - 11/24/86) 90. Sgt Slaughter & Junkyard Dog Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff (WWF - 10/13/84) 89. Terry Funk vs Abdullah the Butcher (AJPW - 4/18/80) 88. Shinobu Kandori vs Bull Nakano (Chain Match - LLPW - 7/14/94) 87. Bruno Sammartino vs Superstar Graham (WWWF - 4/30/77) 86. El Satanico vs Sangre Chicana (EMLL - 5/26/89) 85. Invader I vs Ron Starr (WWC - 9/19/86) 84. Fuerza Guerrera vs Octagon (EMLL - 11/1/91) 83. The Destroyer vs Giant Baba (JWA - 3/5/69) 82. Dump Matsumoto & Bull Nakano vs Jumping Bomb Angels (AJW - 8/22/85) 81. Terry Funk & Dory Funk Jr vs Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy (AJPW - 8/31/83) 80. Invader I vs Chicky Starr (Retirement vs Hair - WWC - 9/20/87) 79. Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage (WWF - 5/24/86) 78. Devil Masami vs Chigusa Nagayo (AJW - 8/22/85) 77. Abdullah the Butcher vs The Sheik (AJPW - 5/2/80) 76. El Satanico vs El Dandy (Super Libre - EMLL - 10/26/90) 75. Invader I vs Al Perez (Street Fight - WWC - 10/26/86) 74. Riki Choshu vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara (NJPW - 6/9/87) 73. Dick Murdoch vs The Nightmare (Mid-South - 7/14/85) 72. Jerry Lawler vs King Kong Bundy ($10,000 Challenge Match - CWA - 7/16/84) 71. Devil Masami vs Mayumi Ozaki (JWP - 12/12/93) 70. El Satanico vs El Dandy (Hair vs Hair - EMLL - 12/14/90) 69. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (AJPW - 1/28/86) 68. Terry Funk & Tommy Dreamer & Beulah vs Mick Foley & Edge & Lita (ECW One Night Stand - 6/11/06) 67. Dump Matsumoto vs Chigusa Nagayo (AJW - 4/3/85) 66. Superstar Graham vs Dusty Rhodes (Texas Death Match - WWWF - 10/24/77) 65. The Rock & Roll Express vs The Russians (JCP - 7/9/85) 64. Terry Funk vs Stan Hansen (AJPW - 4/14/83) 63. Terry Funk & Dory Funk Jr vs Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody (AJPW - 12/13/82) 62. Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow vs Austin Idol & Tommy Rich (Double Jeopardy - CWA - 3/16/87) 61. Roddy Piper vs Greg Valentine (JCP - 7/9/83) 60. Ric Flair vs Ricky Morton (Cage Match - JCP - 7/5/86) 59. Bruno Sammartino vs Superstar Graham (WWWF - 6/27/77) 58. Chikayo Nagashima vs Sugar Sato (Street Fight - Oz Academy - 11/4/02) 57. Riki Choshu vs Shinya Hashimoto (NJPW - 8/2/96) 56. Dump Matsumoto vs Chigusa Nagayo (AJW - 4/5/86) 55. Megumi Kudo vs Combat Toyoda (No Rope Exploding Barbed Wire Death Match - FMW - 5/5/96) 54. Eddy Guerrero & Love Machine & Fuerza Guerera vs El Hijo del Santo & Blue Panther & Octagon (AAA - 8/28/93) 53. Great Muta vs Shinya Hashimoto (AJPW - 2/23/03) 52. Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town - CWA - 7/14/86) 51. Sgt Slaughter vs Iron Sheik (Boot Camp Match - WWF - 6/16/84) 50. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Volk Han (RINGS - 1/22/97) 49. Vader vs Kiyoshi Tamura (UWFI - 6/10/94) 48. Jerry Lawler vs Terry Funk (No DQ - CWA - 3/23/81) 47. Kerry Von Erich vs Michael Hayes (Country Whipping Match - WCCW - 9/5/83) 46. El Hijo del Santo & Octagon vs Eddy Guerrero & Love Machine (Double Mask vs Double Hair - AAA When World's Collide - 11/16/94) 45. El Hijo del Santo vs Negro Casas vs El Dandy (Mask vs Hair vs Hair - CMLL - 12/6/96) 44. Bull Nakano vs Devil Masami (JWP - 4/18/93) 43. Nasty Boys vs Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne (Chicago Street Fight - WCW Spring Stamped - 4/17/94) 42. Mimi Hagiwara & Yukari Ohmori vs Sherri Martel & Judy Martin (AJW - 1/26/82) 41. Atsushi Onita & Tarzan Goto vs Masanobu Kurisu & Kendo Nagasaki (Texas Death Match - FMW - 4/1/90) 40. Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow vs Austin Idol & Tommy Rich (Texas Death Match - CWA - 3/23/87) 39. Terry Funk & Hiroshi Ono vs Shoji Nakamaki & Nobutaka Araya (Hair vs Hair, No Rope Barbed Wire Fire Death Match - IWA Japan - 11/13/94) 38. Hollywood Hogan vs Randy Savage (WCW Halloween Havoc - 10/27/96) 37. Jerry Lawler vs Randy Savage (Loser Laves Town - CWA - 6/3/85) 36. Ultimate Warrior vs Randy Savage (Retirement Match - WWF WrestleManaia 7 - 3/24/91) 35. Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 (Hair vs Hair - EMLL - 9/23/83) 34. Sangre Chicana vs Perro Aguayo (Hair vs Hair - EMLL - 2/28/86) 33. Kiyoshi Tamura vs Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (RINGS - 6/27/98) 32. Chicky Starr vs Invader III (Scaffold Match - WWC - 5/86) 31. Giant Baba vs Fritz Von Erich (JWA - 12/3/66) 30. Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen vs Giant Baba & Rusher Kimura (AJPW - 11/29/89) 29. Terry Funk & Dory Funk Jr vs Abdullah the Butcher & The Sheik (AJPW - 7/15/79) 28. Jerry Lawler vs Terry Funk (Empty Arena Match - CWA - 4/6/81) 27. El Hijo del Santo & Atsushi Onita & Tarzan Goto vs Negro Casas & Tim Patterson & Horace Boulder (WWA/FMW - 5/16/92) 26. Dump Matsumoto & Crane Yu vs Chigusa Nagayo & Lioness Asuka (AJW - 2/25/85) 25. Alexander Otsuka vs Mitsuhiro Matsunaga (BattlArts - 11/9/99) 24. Genichiro Tenryu vs Great Muta (WAR - 10/11/96) 23. Jim Duggan vs Buzz Sawyer (UWF - 11/11/85) 22. Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW - 7/29/93) 21. Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee (Loser Leaves Town - CWA - 12/30/85) 20. Carlos Colon vs Hercules Ayala (Fire Match - WWC - 9/10/88) 19. Bruno Sammartino vs Superstar Graham (WWWF - 8/1/77) 18. Jerry Lawler & Randy Savage vs Rick Rude & King Kong Bundy (CWA - 9/10/84) 17. Terry Funk & Dory Funk Jr vs Abdullah the Butcher & The Sheik (AJPW - 12/15/77) 16. Infierno en el Ring (CMLL - 9/28/01) 15. Ric Flair & Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard & Lex Luger & JJ Dillon vs Dusty Rhodes & Nikita Koloff & The Road Warriors & Paul Ellering (Wargames - JCP Great American Bash - 7/4/87) 14. Jerry Lawler vs Andy Kaufman (Boxing Match - CWA - 11/21/83) 13. Jerry Lawler vs Andy Kaufman (CWA - 4/5/82) 12. Roddy Piper vs Greg Valentine (Dog Collar Match - JCP Starrcade - 11/24/83) 11. Andre the Giant vs Stan Hansen (NJPW - 9/23/81) 10. Superstar Graham vs Dusty Rhodes (WWWF - 9/26/77) 9. The Rock vs Hollywood Hogan (WWE WrestleMania 18 - 3/17/02) 8. Jerry Lawler vs Austin Idol (Steel Cage Match - CWA - 4/27/87) 7. Akira Hokuto & Shinobu Kandori vs Aja Kong & Bull Nakano (AJW Queendom - 3/27/94) 6. Akira Hokuto vs Shinobu Kandori (AJW DreamSlam I - 4/2/93) 5. Dump Matsumoto vs Itsuki Yamazaki (AJW - 8/21/86) 4. Dump Matsumoto vs Chigusa Nagayo (Hair vs Hair - AJW - 8/28/85) 3. Dump Matsumoto & Bull Nakano vs Chigusa Nagayo & Lioness Asuka (AJW - 10/10/85) 2. Dump Matsumoto vs Chigusa Nagayo (Hair vs Hair - AJW - 11/7/86) 1. Dump Matsumoto vs Yukari Ohmori (AJW - 3/20/86)
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Post by [Darren] on Jul 1, 2023 0:24:12 GMT -5
Both of the Hogan/Savage matches need to go on my list next time.
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Post by KB8 on Jul 1, 2023 5:36:54 GMT -5
Well, I think that is certainly the most ELLIOTT list of all elliott lists since we started this thing. In the best way possible, I mean.
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