|
|
Post by Cap on Jul 18, 2019 15:06:41 GMT -5
Most matches on my first list. will probably hold that record for a while. Just the best big match worker of all time in my book. He adds a layer of charisma and energy to the AJPW style in the 90s that makes his work shine for me. On top of that, death-wish Kobashi in NOAH was always a treat, even if it was sort of terrifying at times.
|
|
|
|
Post by bossrock on Jul 20, 2019 15:01:16 GMT -5
My favorite wrestler ever and quite possibly the greatest of all-time. Had the most matches to make my ballot. Is second only to Misawa for number of matches I've gone the full 5 on. Greatest offensive wrestler ever not just becuase of the size of his arsenal, but knowing when to use what move and how to make it count. Everyone talks about Kobashi only doing the Burning Hammer 7 times, but how often did he do the Orange Crush? For someone who certainly became a bit excessive in later years, he still understood the importance of not doing things just for the sake of doing them. And speaking of excessive, even though his NOAH run was filled with a lot of "big move, sell, big move, sell" matches, I dare you to find anyone who could do it better. And though he was histrionic at times, there was always a charm to everything he did. Whenever he made his dramatic intensity face, I absolutely believed it was authentic. When it comes to selling, he might only be rivaled by Kawada.
I would say '93 and '98 were his best years and would for sure argue he was the best in the world. I think his 90's work was better than his 2000's work, but I would also argue he was best in the world in '03 and '04.
|
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Jul 20, 2019 16:13:06 GMT -5
I think he's the best of the pillars. Best of that group as young wrestlers & as old wrestlers. When they were at their mid-late 90s peak I think they are all close enough in quality that you can rank them any way you want without much of an argument from anyone.
|
|
|
|
Post by bossrock on Jul 21, 2019 8:37:40 GMT -5
To go a bit further on Kobashi, I think the reason he's my favorite is because he encapsulates all of the things I love in wrestling: action, escalation, drama, and ambition.
|
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Jul 28, 2019 20:09:23 GMT -5
Best moonsault in wrestling history.
|
|
|
|
Post by microstatistics on Jul 28, 2019 20:26:31 GMT -5
Easily the best of the pillars, IMO. Most great matches, best seller, best offense, most consistent, better longevity, the smartest (there I said it).
|
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Jul 28, 2019 20:35:01 GMT -5
Easily the best of the pillars, IMO. Most great matches, best seller, best offense, most consistent, better longevity, the smartest (there I said it). I dig it. Not sure I'm there yet on agreeing, but he's definitely not the dumbest which many (myself included) would have said for decades. |
|
|
|
Post by Cap on Jul 29, 2019 12:47:26 GMT -5
I always found the Kobashi was dumb argument maddening. I didn't see it and couldn't understand it. It felt like people being anti-kobashi because people loved kobashi.
|
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Jul 29, 2019 15:25:14 GMT -5
He's a long time friend, but blame jdw  |
|
|
|
Post by bossrock on Jul 29, 2019 15:30:53 GMT -5
I may have said at one point his later work comprised of big, dumb spectacle matches (and as much as I love the Sasaki match, the length of the chop exchange is a bit silly). But considering how banged up he was and in how bad of shape his knees were, the fact that he was able to still put on such compelling matches in the NOAH years even if the finishing stretches often became "big move, sell, big move, sell" does speak to his intelligence as a wrestler. He still knew when to do certain moves and how to make them count while working around his physical limitations.
|
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Jul 30, 2019 20:29:27 GMT -5
The "Kobashi was dumb" talking point really goes back to the finish of the 8/93 Williams match.
|
|
|
|
Post by tetsujin on Sept 14, 2019 15:52:45 GMT -5
At how many wrestling things could Kobashi be the best ever? He's one of the best babyfaces ever. One of the best big match workers ever. One of the greatest underdogs ever. One of the greatest aces ever. One of the greatest tag and multitags workers ever. One of the toughest workers ever. One of the most charismatic wrestling stars ever. One of the better sellers AND offensive wrestlers ever. One of the greatest maximalist workers ever...
Also, his whole career seems like it was entirely long-term booked from top to bottom. Like, it was the perfect road for a pro wrestler: a very promising young lion, the hottest underdog for a very long time, he overcame every foe he had and then finally became the king of the mountain and had a very good and long reign, had two of the greatest comebacks ever (2002 and specially 2007) and his retirement was easily the biggest ever. I could buy that as a best-seller. The only flaw I can think about is the fact that Kobashi never had a successful successor, but obviously that was NOAH's fault and not his. An awesome, near-perfect career, and I think nobody else has that.
|
|
|
|
Post by bossrock on Sept 14, 2019 15:55:14 GMT -5
At how many wrestling things could Kobashi be the best ever? He's one of the best babyfaces ever. One of the best big match workers ever. One of the greatest underdogs ever. One of the greatest aces ever. One of the greatest tag and multitags workers ever. One of the toughest workers ever. One of the most charismatic wrestling stars ever. One of the better sellers AND offensive wrestlers ever. One of the greatest maximalist workers ever... Also, his whole career seems like it was entirely long-term booked from top to bottom. Like, it was the perfect road for a pro wrestler: a very promising young lion, the hottest underdog for a very long time, he overcame every foe he had and then finally became the king of the mountain and had a very good and long reign, had two of the greatest comebacks ever (2002 and specially 2007) and his retirement was easily the biggest ever. I could buy that as a best-seller. The only flaw I can think about is the fact that Kobashi never had a successful successor, but obviously that was NOAH's fault and not his. An awesome, near-perfect career, and I think nobody else has that. Very well said and I agree with a lot of this. Not to mention he seemed to have the best matches against non-pillar opponents than the other pillars. Very much why I lean towards him as not only the best pillar, but the GOAT. |
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Sept 15, 2019 2:44:48 GMT -5
Also, his whole career seems like it was entirely long-term booked from top to bottom. Minus all the horrific injuries that led to him having to miss a bunch of time, work hurt and retire in his mid 40s. I think Antonio Inoki would have something to say about that |
|
|
|
Post by tetsujin on Sept 15, 2019 5:15:37 GMT -5
I obviously don't think his injuries and his cancer were a good thing lol, I said the good thing is that he overcome everything and he even was able to remodel his ring work to last longer even with his bad knees.
|
|
