|
Post by elliott on Jul 29, 2019 1:38:14 GMT -5
Another pleasant surprise from GWE for me was Mick Foley landing in the top 40. Of course he's a huge star but I felt the worm had kind of turned on him among people in our circles. I was happy to find out that wasn't the case. I once described Foley as the smartest dumb wrestler ever. He did some of the dumbest shit ever in order to get noticed, but I would also argue he had one of the best wrestling minds of his generation. He was a better young worker than people may remember and had great stuff as early as 1990. He has pretty decent amount of great/memorable matches against a wide variety of opponents. Terry Funk, Sabu, Sting, Vader, Eddie Gilbert, Taker, Michaels, Austin, Rock, HHH etc. Even more when you start adding in tags & multi man matches.
He actually had a large amount of memorable carry jobs. Most people, Sting included, would probably point to the Sting matches as carry jobs. In WCW he had really good stuff with washed up Paul Orndorff and never good Van Hammer. In WWE he had Undertaker's first truly good matches. He was the guy who solidified Rock & then HHH as top guys. Rock was inevitable obviously, but HHH was due to Foley. His Austin matches weren't carry jobs but it is notable that he was the first hot challenger for new WWE Champs Austin, Rock & HHH.
One thing I've noticed is the best pro wrestlers seem to peak in their late 30s. By then for the most part they have the right combination of ring experience and athleticism to be the best possible version of themselves. Unfortunately Foley's body was so trashed from the years of insane bumps, I feel like its possible we never got to see the best possible version of in-ring Foley.
When you add mic work/character work into the equation it only enhances his legacy. Foley's great.
|
|
|
Post by bossrock on Jul 29, 2019 16:15:15 GMT -5
I've seen most if not all of Foley's "classic" matches, but I feel like there's a lot I'm still missing. Especially in regards to WCW and ECW, so would welcome any and all recommendations.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Jul 30, 2019 2:04:59 GMT -5
I need to go through ECW & SMW on a deeper level again at some point I suppose so my recommendations will be light in that regard. But in terms of pre WWE Foley I'd take a look at: Cactus Jack & Terry Funk vs Eddie Gilbert & Stan Lane WWA 11/9/90 Anything vs Eddie Gilbert. Everyone knows the 8/3/91 3 stages match, but I recall some fun WCW TV matches. vs Sting (Submit or Surrender) 11/23/91 vs Van Hammer 1/21/92 vs Sting 6/20/92 vs Paul Orndorff 1/10/93 There are a couple of Dustin Rhodes matches from this time period that I don't remember but would be some of the first I'd look at. Everyone knows the Vader series & the Nasty Boys tags vs Sabu 10/30/94 is probably the best one vs Terry Funk 1/8/95 w/ Douglas vs Funk & Sandman 3/18/95 Weekly Pro 8 Man Cluster Fuck O'Rama vs Sandman barbed wire 6/17/95 w/ Raven vs Funk & Dreamer November to Remember vs Wing Kanemura 5/5/96
|
|
|
Post by microstatistics on Jul 30, 2019 20:48:46 GMT -5
That's a great list. At the time #38 or whatever he landed at during GWE seemed a bit high but now I think it was just right (maybe even a little too low). Amazing career.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Jul 30, 2019 21:05:14 GMT -5
I hope everyone checks out that tag with Funk vs Lane & Gilbert.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Sept 1, 2019 4:58:16 GMT -5
US based wrestlers better than Foley from 1/90-4/00? Bret. Maybe Shawn? Maybe Dustin? And?
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Sept 8, 2019 3:49:16 GMT -5
What is everyone's best Foley match? Over the Edge vs Austin? Royal Rumble vs HHH? Something else? Those two feel like they would be the runaway favorites unless I'm forgetting something obvious. Hell in a Cell 98 would have been an obvious pick in 1998 but I figured we're all way past that point.
Still thinking he is quite possibly a top 3 US worker from 90-00.
|
|
|
Post by nintendologic on Sept 8, 2019 7:57:15 GMT -5
For my money, the HBK match at Mind Games is far and away Foley's best. I'd also put the Falls Count Anywhere match with Orndorff at Superbrawl in the conversation.
|
|
|
Post by Kadaveri on Sept 8, 2019 9:31:03 GMT -5
Yeah I'm with Mind Games as his best match. I'm still not sure what exactly I think of KotR 1998, how much is its "greatness" really just shock and novelty?
|
|
|
Post by bossrock on Sept 8, 2019 9:52:47 GMT -5
Definitely Mind Games. I still love the Orton Backlash match as well.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Sept 8, 2019 20:25:02 GMT -5
For my money, the HBK match at Mind Games is far and away Foley's best. I'd also put the Falls Count Anywhere match with Orndorff at Superbrawl in the conversation.Cool! That makes me want to rewatch that match. Its been forever. Its always been pimped on some level, but I've never seen someone call it Foley's career match.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Sept 8, 2019 20:28:30 GMT -5
Yeah I'm with Mind Games as his best match. I'm still not sure what exactly I think of KotR 1998, how much is its "greatness" really just shock and novelty?100% of it. But I do think it would have been on the short list for a lot of people at one point. Speaking of, I'm surprised no one's mentioned any of the Vader matches.
|
|
|
Post by bossrock on Sept 8, 2019 21:23:15 GMT -5
Oh yeah, Halloween Havoc is pretty great but Mind Games is still #1 for me.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Sept 8, 2019 21:33:29 GMT -5
Yeah I'm with Mind Games as his best match. I'm still not sure what exactly I think of KotR 1998, how much is its "greatness" really just shock and novelty?100% of it. But I do think it would have been on the short list for a lot of people at one point. Speaking of, I'm surprised no one's mentioned any of the Vader matches. The Foley clusterfuck where everything fell apart I'd like to rewatch the the Funk Kiing of the Death Match Final. I probably haven't watched that since like 1997.
|
|
|
Post by Cap on Sept 9, 2019 19:16:00 GMT -5
I'd actually say the HHH Royal Rumble match is his best. Its one of HHH's two or three best performances, but even still it is Foley's masterpiece in my mind, his most impressive king-maker performance.
I actually think the HIAC match at KOR was better - outside of the bells and whistles - than a lot of people give it credit for. I think its a solid match on the whole punctuated with those massive spots.
The Vader matches are great, I think its up there with his best.
I would say my top 5 Foley Matches, in order, are:
1) vs HHH (Rumble) 2) vs HBK (Mind Games) 3) vs Vader (Havoc 4) vs Sting (Beach Blast) 5) vs Austin (Over the Edge)
|
|