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Post by elliott on Aug 4, 2019 13:05:34 GMT -5
Baba was an awesome wrestler who had great singles matches, tag matches, technical world title matches, and blood soaked brawls against a bunch of really different opponents. Knew what he could do (which was a lot) and didn't do anything outside of that and figured out small ways to stay modern as the decades passed.
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Post by elliott on Feb 14, 2021 11:49:53 GMT -5
I haven't decided if I want to nominate it yet, but I just watched a 4 minute Giant Baba vs Abdullah the Butcher brawl from 1986 in PUERTO RICO and my mind is blown. Giant Baba brawling in a basketball gymnasium in 1986 Puerto Rico was a dream I never knew I had until today.
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Post by elliott on Feb 15, 2021 14:45:59 GMT -5
Planning on watching some Giant Baba matches. I'm gonna avoid stuff like vs Destroyer, Fritz, BIlly Robinson, Jack Brisco, Harley, Hansen in order to focus on stuff I haven't seen before. With that in mind, I watched 2 videos of matches between Giant Baba and Gorilla Monsoon from 1963 and 1969. Both videos were short and one was clips.
The 69 match was quick but it was a snooze. Gorilla did a somersault to reverse an arm wringer. That was something else! Gorilla was the palest wrestler I've ever seen. Put a shirt on Gorilla. Baba did a dropkick (!) but missed and it lead right to Gorilla getting a clean pinfall victory. Video was only 7 minutes so it may have been 2/3 falls but I'm not sure. Nothing match but a shocking finish.
Also watched clips of a match they had from 4/63. This one was a time limit draw and actually looked kind of interesting. Gorilla's body and athleticism fell off a fucking cliff between 1963 and 1969. But he's in good shape in 63 and this clips made him look ok. I don't want to see this 2 in a time limit draw, but there's enough here that I'd like a quick bloody brawl between them.
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Post by elliott on Feb 15, 2021 15:30:41 GMT -5
Watched another short (8 minutes) match against Baron Von Raschke from 12/6/75. This is what I'd call an either/or match. Either you're ok with the claw hold or you're not. If you're ok with a claw hold, this is a perfectly fine match that won't offend you but you'll forget right away. If you hate the claw hold no matter what, you can safely avoid this match and know you're not missing much. I've gone from hating the claw hold as a kid and teenager to now I actually kinda dig it as an adult. There are worse submissions to build a match around.
Anyway, this match was fine, but nothin to write home about. Baba won with a drop kick. Thats fun.
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Post by elliott on Feb 15, 2021 15:49:34 GMT -5
Watched one more quick one. This time vs Sheik 9/20/72 in Honolulu. I wanted something a little more exciting after the previous matches I watched and if nothing else, Sheik is gonna give you atmosphere. Sheik is another one of those guys I used to just hate but now I'm sort of interested in. I wouldn't want to watch an 8 hour Sheik set, but every now and then he kinda hits the spot. Like I was looking forward to this one whereas 10 years ago I would have avoided it.
Anyway, this was exactly what you thought it was. 10ish minute double juice match. They take turns trying to throw a table at each other. Crowd went bonkers when Baba smashed Sheiks head onto the table. Not gonna blow your mind but good fun if you're a fan of either guy.
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Post by elliott on Feb 16, 2021 11:52:57 GMT -5
I watched Baba vs Kinatro Oki 10/30/75. I couldn't tell you if I'd ever seen a Kintaro Oki match. He was only (already) 46 here and he moved really poorly. These guys circled each other for 5 minutes and then we got 2 minutes of action. Oki only threw headbutts at Baba's stomach or his head. Baba actually took some nice bumps and sold well to get this shit over including rolling to the outside and blading. He then planted Oki with a neck breaker drop for the win.
My biggest takeaways were that I'm always shocked at the size of Baba's head, hands and feet. I'm trying not to focus on his body being so odd because that's what everyone does (and its 2021, we're better than that now). So I'm looking past the skinny arms or small chest. His head is fucking huge. Its like 1.4x the size of Oki's head. (Oki was 6'1, not a small man at the time). Which stood out as Oki was throwing these headbutts at Baba but he's just dwarfed. Its like running into the side of a house. So Baba then selling the headbutts puts Oki's headbutts over as dangerous. (If they can affect Baba and his head, what will they do to a normal person.) Also his hands are like Dr J's. (I dunno if folks here know their NBA history, Julius Erving had famously enormous hands). It kinda blows my mind that people have problems with Baba chops when his hands are double the size of a normal human. Baba's hands are substantially bigger and heavier than your average adult man. So even a 1/4 speed Baba chop is going to knock a few screws loose.
My other takeaway was that I'm shocked at how much Baba gave in this short match. He sold, bumped and bladed to get over Oki's weak offense when as the top star and owner of the promotion, Baba easily could've just squashed him and been done with it. Instead he went out and had a realish match and put this old fart over before beating him.
Still. I wouldn't recommend this. Its only 6 or 7 minutes but its not worth your time like Baba vs Abby in PR.
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Post by elliott on Feb 16, 2021 12:04:02 GMT -5
Watched Baba vs Bulldog Bob Brown from AWA WrestleRock and it was terrible. That match didn't need to happen.
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Post by nintendologic on Feb 16, 2021 12:17:58 GMT -5
Have you seen Baba vs. Raja Lion? That match is legendary for being all-time awful, although I've heard it was terrible on purpose as it was intended to be a spoof of Inoki's Different Style Fights.
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Post by elliott on Feb 16, 2021 12:18:03 GMT -5
I needed a palate cleanser after these last two matches, so I checked out Baba vs Abdullah the Butcher 12/13/75 and it really hits the spot. Its just a short brawl but with a lot more energy and chaos than the other two matches I just watched. I've not just grown to appreciate Abdullah in recent years, but I'd say I actively like him now and the thought of an Abby vs Baba match isn't a chore but something I look forward to. Really cool to see the much more athletic looking Abdullah.
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Post by elliott on Feb 16, 2021 12:19:50 GMT -5
Have you seen Baba vs. Raja Lion? That match is legendary for being all-time awful, although I've heard it was terrible on purpose as it was intended to be a spoof of Inoki's Different Style Fights. Not yet but I'll definitely check it out. I've heard the same thing so it was never a match I would have wanted to see until recently.
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Post by elliott on Feb 17, 2021 13:20:20 GMT -5
I watched another match against Abdullah the Butcher, this one from JWA 5/19/71! This was super cool and I'd definitely recommend it. Its a quick double juice brawl, but it has some really amazing spots considering who is in the match and the general perception of them as wrestlers & especially as athletes. Abby was only 30 (as opposed to 658) and was kind of an athletic marvel. He's surprisingly quick and the height and distance he gets on his elbow drop is legitimately shocking. Giant Baba does a dropkick and gets some decent height on it. Baba also hits probably the best looking chop I can remember him doing and immediately follows it with a great looking jumping chop where he also got some decent height. There's a really great spot where Baba whips Abby into the ropes and nails him with a chop, Abby sells it big but doesn't bump and so Baba follows it up with another Irish whip and just fucking plants him with a big boot for a big 2 count. Great spot. AWESOME to see these guys moving so quickly. There's another great spot with them brawling outside the ring and Baba slams Abby's head into the ringside table. Then Baba stands up on the table and stomps Abby's head. The visual of Giant Baba standing on top of a table making him like 11 feet tall is fucking incredible.
This isn't FLair vs Steamboat or Misawa vs Kawada. Its a 7 minute double juice brawl with Giant Baba and Abdullah the Butcher. So don't go into this expecting it to change the world. But as someone who likes both guys, this really scratches an itch. Honestly I'd encourage people to watch it if only to see what physical prime Abdullah the Butcher looks like.
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Post by dkuchler31096 on Feb 17, 2021 18:33:26 GMT -5
Funny how you mention him in this vein as he's become a topic of discussion on my Great Match Generator podcasts as a polarizing figure and in ring I agree with that sentiment. You either love Baba or think he's a hindrance
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Post by elliott on Feb 17, 2021 19:04:57 GMT -5
I get not liking old Baba. I disagree but I understand it. But younger Baba is amazing. Definitely one of the best workers of his era.
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Post by elliott on Feb 18, 2021 2:15:54 GMT -5
Watched a match against Dick the Bruiser from JWA 2/28/68
I take back what I said earlier about the best Baba chop happeing in that Abdullah match. There's about 10 amazing chops in this match and the final one is like a death blow. I've never really liked Dick the Bruiser before, but I really liked this match a lot. Baba has his knee wrapped up and Bruiser targets it early. But eventually this just turns into a wild brawl. Bruiser uses a chair! Baba chokes him out with a microphone cord! Crazy shit. JWA with a lil Memphis flavor. Give me stuff like this all day.
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Post by elliott on Feb 18, 2021 20:08:46 GMT -5
I watched another one against Dick the Bruiser this one from AJPW 4/10/75
I was going to take a shit all over this one after the first fall. I was all ready to complain about how boring Dick the Buiser is and how I can appreciate someone who only punches, chokes and stomps but really all he does is punch and stomp and choke. But by the end of this I was all in. It took a while to get there, but eventually these two are just covered in blood wailing on each other and it made for some fun visuals. 2nds brawling outside the ring with each other added to the chaos. Not even close to an upper tier Baba match, but I ended up liking it in the end.
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