|
Post by tetsujin on Nov 26, 2020 19:11:15 GMT -5
Something I like to do with this match sometimes is putting the youtube time bar in some random timestap. If nothing cool happens in at least sixty seconds, I win. I've never won. There's ALWAYS, at least, an interesting spot or a little detail that makes me happy.
|
|
|
Post by bossrock on Jun 9, 2021 18:01:08 GMT -5
Just wanna wish the greatest match of all time a happy 26th birthday.
|
|
|
Post by club on Mar 17, 2022 6:53:40 GMT -5
When I was getting into Japanese wrestling, in my little bubble it was basically gospel that this, Misawa vs Kawada, or Flair vs Steamboat were the best matches ever. For that reason this match has always had an unfair weight of expectation on it. I went in looking for the best match ever and it came up short on that. That disappointment has always tainted my enjoyment of of the match. Rewatching today, it’s brilliant. It’s an epic that needs the 40+ minutes it takes to tell it’s story. It escalates so so well, with Kobashi’s slowly becoming immobile and Misawa more vulnerable. There’s the great individual battle of Misawa vs Kawada running through the whole thing. There are some nitpicks, some of Misawa’s more intricate stuff takes too long, and Kobashi covering Misawa feels overly melodramatic. It would have fitted in say a mid-80s Crush Gals tag but felt off compared to the tone of rest of the match here. Those points aside this is an exceptional match. Probably the high point of 90s All Japan and a definite top 10 contender.
|
|
|
Post by lemming on Mar 17, 2022 7:01:59 GMT -5
I watched this again a couple of days ago for the first time in a few years. I don't rewatch it often because I always fear it might not live up to my memory of it. The magic might have worn off.
Yeah, it's still the GOAT.
|
|
|
Post by [Darren] on Mar 1, 2023 8:30:14 GMT -5
This match is obviously great. But, I don’t personally like it more than 12/3/93,4/20/91, 12/6/96 or 1/20/97. In terms of the 90s ajpw matches known by their dates.
I said previously it’s not my job to argue for this match. If I have room, I’ll give it a token spot but if I have to make room for a new match, this is one of the first to go. 6/9/95 will be just fine without me.
|
|
|
Post by mrjmml on May 5, 2023 13:45:47 GMT -5
The best match in AJPW history, it will be second on my list, I have nothing else to say, just watch it if you haven't already.
|
|
|
Post by tetsujin on May 5, 2023 18:19:01 GMT -5
Do you guys think this match works in a vacuum? Like, obviously the context is always important but to me the greatest matches are those that trascend their context. Kobashi/Hansen is one of those very easy to get fights, for example, they stablish everything you need to know about them literally in the first few seconds. Does this match do the same, or it's one of those matches that only feels like magic when you already know the Misawa-Kawada stuff (at least)?
|
|
|
Post by mrjmml on May 5, 2023 18:33:58 GMT -5
Do you guys think this match works in a vacuum? Like, obviously the context is always important but to me the greatest matches are those that trascend their context. Kobashi/Hansen is one of those very easy to get fights, for example, they stablish everything you need to know about them literally in the first few seconds. Does this match do the same, or it's one of those matches that only feels like magic when you already know the Misawa-Kawada stuff (at least)? In my opinion, it doesn't really need context, there's many spots of throughout the match that make looking away impossible even for a casual viewer that doesn't know anything about the relationship between the wrestlers. The first time I watched it I was going in without knowing the background and I loved it.
|
|
|
Post by kas on May 5, 2023 18:37:33 GMT -5
Do you guys think this match works in a vacuum? Like, obviously the context is always important but to me the greatest matches are those that trascend their context. Kobashi/Hansen is one of those very easy to get fights, for example, they stablish everything you need to know about them literally in the first few seconds. Does this match do the same, or it's one of those matches that only feels like magic when you already know the Misawa-Kawada stuff (at least)? This was actually the first AJPW match I ever watched and it's still the one I consider the best. I think a lot of the stuff, like just how dastardly HDA are, how courageous and gutsy Kobashi is, and how strong Misawa is in comparison to the others are all very easy to read even if you've never seen another match including any of these four
|
|
|
Post by mrjmml on May 5, 2023 18:46:25 GMT -5
Do you guys think this match works in a vacuum? Like, obviously the context is always important but to me the greatest matches are those that trascend their context. Kobashi/Hansen is one of those very easy to get fights, for example, they stablish everything you need to know about them literally in the first few seconds. Does this match do the same, or it's one of those matches that only feels like magic when you already know the Misawa-Kawada stuff (at least)? This was actually the first AJPW match I ever watched and it's still the one I consider the best. I think a lot of the stuff, like just how dastardly HDA are, how courageous and gutsy Kobashi is, and how strong Misawa is in comparison to the others are all very easy to read even if you've never seen another match including any of these four I was in the same situation when I saw it for the first time.
|
|
|
Post by fxnj on May 5, 2023 19:27:51 GMT -5
Main bits of context necessary to understand the match's narrative arc would be
1. Kobashi is working with an injured leg (this is extremely obvious in the match) 2. Misawa is working with an injured orbital bone (not as obvious, but can still be inferred from his selling) 3. Misawa is the ace with Kawada as his main rival (this can also be inferred from the exchanges and character work)
Obviously there's a lot more to the Misawa/Kawada rivalry that enhances the match, alongside various bits playing off prior matches and the guys' general characters, but I'd say all the ingredients are still there to understand the bulk of the match purely as a standalone piece.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on May 5, 2023 20:03:07 GMT -5
I know Kadaveri recently did this experiment with this match with a non-fan but I can't find the results.
|
|
|
Post by Kadaveri on May 5, 2023 20:13:54 GMT -5
I know Kadaveri recently did this experiment with this match with a non-fan but I can't find the results. Heh yes but it was for 12/6/96 not this match, and it wasn't a non-fan just someone who'd never watched any puro. Here's what he said anyway:
|
|
|
Post by microstatistics on May 5, 2023 20:26:29 GMT -5
Main bits of context necessary to understand the match's narrative arc would be 1. Kobashi is working with an injured leg (this is extremely obvious in the match) 2. Misawa is working with an injured orbital bone (not as obvious, but can still be inferred from his selling) 3. Misawa is the ace with Kawada as his main rival (this can also be inferred from the exchanges and character work) Obviously there's a lot more to the Misawa/Kawada rivalry that enhances the match, alongside various bits playing off prior matches and the guys' general characters, but I'd say all the ingredients are still there to understand the bulk of the match purely as a standalone piece. Good to have you back fxnj. I'd add that Taue just lost the Champion's Carnival final to Misawa despite a golden run so he has a chip on his shoulder as well. Otherwise, this is pretty much it for the necessary context.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on May 5, 2023 20:36:08 GMT -5
I know Kadaveri recently did this experiment with this match with a non-fan but I can't find the results. Heh yes but it was for 12/6/96 not this match, and it wasn't a non-fan just someone who'd never watched any puro. Here's what he said anyway:
That's why I couldn't find it. It was the 12/6/96 match lolololol
|
|