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Post by Cap on Sept 27, 2019 11:45:31 GMT -5
I know we have the thread for feuds and rivalries with multiple contenders, but I wanted to ask what you think the BEST feuds and rivalries are? Which ones are popping up on your list? Which ones do you love, even if they don't make the list?
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Post by Cap on Sept 27, 2019 12:30:09 GMT -5
I will start with a few that jump out to me, some obvious some not so much.
Hansen/Kobashi - This is - without a doubt - my favorite pairing in wrestling. I think Hansen's chaoitic brawling style is the perfect match for Kobashi's charismatic babyface energy and moveset. Even moreso than in his matches with Misawa, I think Kobashi feels like he is truly having his very best drawn out of him by Hansen. I only took a close look at two of their matches for the project last year, but already the 91 one match is making my list this year.... that means they have 3 on my list and I still have some (re)watching to do.
Guerrero/JBL - I for one really liked this run from JBL. Even though I wish Eddie had the belt for longer, I thought this feud was fantastic. This one I wanted to mention because it only produced one match that makes my list, but without the surrounding feud that match wouldn't be the all time classic (in my eyes) that it is. I thought JBL brought some of Eddie's best face work out of him and Eddie carried JBL to the best wrestling and probably the best promos he has ever done.
Kandori/Hokuto - I mean my #1 match on last years list came from this feud. Their rematch isn't really something I would consider, but its a GREAT match. I also consider their tag against Bull and Aja as part of this because of how antagonistic they are to one another within it and that match did very well on my list. These two were made for one another. Kandori is a killer and Hokuto works from underneath so so well. Two world class wrestlers and their chemistry is fantastic.
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Post by tetsujin on Sept 27, 2019 13:39:32 GMT -5
Kobashi/Misawa, Lawler/Dundee, Benoit/Angle, Eddie/Rey, Naito/Omega, Santito/Casas, Rush/Park, Bryan/McGuinness. Some of their matches together will easily make my list.
Ambrose/Rollins is another great rivalry with very good and different matches, but they don't have the MOTYC I need for a best rivalry ever... Well, maybe their 30' Ironman or their Ladder match, but I need to rewatch both.
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Post by elliott on Sept 27, 2019 16:46:17 GMT -5
I see Feuds & Rivalries as different things. Rivalries are more broad like Flair vs Steamboat or Santo vs Casas. Feuds are specific like Flair vs Steamboat 89 or Santo vs Casas 96/97. All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. That sort of thing.
Anyway. With that said,
I wanted to single out Bull Nakano vs Aja Kong from 1990-1992 as an all time great feud. It has multiple all time great matches both in tag matches, singles matches, gimmick matches, and traditional main event title matches all part of one long drawn out story. Obviously they wrestled against other people at this time period, but they were the central focus of the company for almost 3 years. It is something you can dip your toes in and pick out individual matches and they will be awesome, but then the entire thing taken as a whole is truly exceptional. It was an important an influential series at the time and holds up extremely well almost 30 years later.
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Post by bossrock on Sept 27, 2019 17:52:10 GMT -5
Misawa-Kobashi: I think for a lot of folks this has surpassed Misawa-Kawada as the greatest AJPW feud. While Misawa-Kawada lost its way a bit due to the booking and the later matches never reached what they accomplished in 6/3/94, Misawa-Kobashi was consistently high-end throughout. All their title matches with the exception of the October '97 match (which is still awesome) made my list with the January '97 and '98 matches making my top 10. IMO this is the greatest big match rivalry of all-time.
Hansen-Kobashi: Maybe the best "coming of age" feud ever. Over the course of 4-5 years Kobashi comes closer and closer to slaying the dragon that is Stan Hansen. I love the progression and improvement Kobashi makes in each match and how Hansen becomes more and more desperate and vulnerable. While Kobashi finally got his win in '94, I like to look at the '96 TC match as the proper end to their feud. Kobashi had already won the title but in order to almost validate that he belonged at the top of the card, he had to beat Hanse one more time.
Okada-Omega: IMO the greatest in-ring rivalry of the 21st century. Two of the best athletes in wrestling pushing each other to their absolute limits simply to prove who's the best. As much as Okada should have lost the title to Naito, Omega was the kayfabe best person to beat him. Due to Okada's winning strategies focusing on him either dictating the pace or simply relying on his stamina to outlast his opponent and capitalize on a mistake, it makes sense that an arguably even better athlete be the one to beat him.
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Post by elliott on Sept 28, 2019 15:34:49 GMT -5
Hansen-Kobashi: Maybe the best "coming of age" feud ever. Over the course of 4-5 years Kobashi comes closer and closer to slaying the dragon that is Stan Hansen. I love the progression and improvement Kobashi makes in each match and how Hansen becomes more and more desperate and vulnerable. While Kobashi finally got his win in '94, I like to look at the '96 TC match as the proper end to their feud. Kobashi had already won the title but in order to almost validate that he belonged at the top of the card, he had to beat Hanse one more time. I agree but this actually sells the entire rivalry short because it ignores Hansen's journey from top tier gaijin in his prime (the first great match they had together was Kobashi teaming with Jumbo against Hansen & Tenryu in 7/89) to basically the end.
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Post by KB8 on Sept 28, 2019 16:47:36 GMT -5
Going by elliot's criteria, my favourite rivalries are Ikeda/Ishikawa, Lawler/Dundee, Eddie/Rey, Hashimoto/Choshu, Tenryu/Hashimoto, Hansen/Kobashi, Midnights/RnRs, Midnights/Fantastics, Santo/Casas...most of the universal picks, I guess.
For specific feuds, WAR v New Japan might be cheating a little but I think it's the best in-ring feud there's ever been. Eddie/Rey in 2005 got silly with the Dominic story, but it produced three truly great matches (one that'll be somewhere around my top 10) and some incredible character work from Eddie. Flair/Funk in '89 might be the best US feud ever. Rush/Casas/Shocker might be my favourite feud of the 2010s. The Duggan/DiBiase and Duggan/Sawyer feuds were absolute all-timers. Midnight Rockers/Rose & Somers was great.
I feel like there must be some under the radar great feuds we're all forgetting.
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Post by nintendologic on Sept 28, 2019 17:50:29 GMT -5
Even though it never had a proper blowoff, Hart vs. Austin has to be the greatest feud of all time between wrestlers/factions who feuded for less than a year and never faced each other before or after. I can't think of anything else that would even be close.
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Post by bossrock on Sept 28, 2019 18:38:24 GMT -5
Hansen-Kobashi: Maybe the best "coming of age" feud ever. Over the course of 4-5 years Kobashi comes closer and closer to slaying the dragon that is Stan Hansen. I love the progression and improvement Kobashi makes in each match and how Hansen becomes more and more desperate and vulnerable. While Kobashi finally got his win in '94, I like to look at the '96 TC match as the proper end to their feud. Kobashi had already won the title but in order to almost validate that he belonged at the top of the card, he had to beat Hanse one more time. I agree but this actually sells the entire rivalry short because it ignores Hansen's journey from top tier gaijin in his prime (the first great match they had together was Kobashi teaming with Jumbo against Hansen & Tenryu in 7/89) to basically the end. Oh definitely, didn't mean to sell it short at all and that's sort of what I meant that Hansen becomes more vulnerable. Like you mentioned in final results for the July '93 match, Hansen went from the guy who would steamroll lesser opponents to more of an aged gunslinger who had to deal with the rising talent nipping at his heels.
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Post by bossrock on Sept 28, 2019 18:44:29 GMT -5
Colon-Hansen is another one of my favorites. Their first title match in '86, the bullrope match, and the cage match all made my list with the bullrope match just missing the top 25. I'm by no means an expert on territory feuds, but the idea of the invading heel running roughshod, cheating to win the title, and then being driven out by the champion babyface in a violent grudge match was done pretty much to perfection here.
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Post by KB8 on Sept 29, 2019 5:16:31 GMT -5
I forgot Bret/Austin and Hansen/Colon. Both are tremendous and both might have a couple matches apiece on my final list. Hansen/Colon almost certainly will, actually.
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Post by elliott on Sept 30, 2019 2:49:55 GMT -5
I feel like there must be some under the radar great feuds we're all forgetting. There are soooo many. We could do a top 100 Feuds/Rivals poll and I know for certain I'd grapple with to cut/not cut until the last minute. I mean, I dunno if we can really call it "under the radar" but it hasn't been brought up and no one other than me voted for a match from the feud, but Freebirds vs Von Erichs is still one of the greatest feuds ever. Starting from Flair vs Kerry in a cage and ending with Kerry vs Hayes in a cage is right there with anything that's ever happened in wrestling. So here's 10 feuds/rivalries even more under the radar than Aja vs Bull that we're all forgetting and folks should check out: 1. Fabulous Ones vs Moondogs 2. Jerry Lawler & Jerry Jarrett vs Moondogs 3. Mad Dog Vachon vs Jerry Blackwell 4. Dustin Rhodes vs Bunkhouse Buck 5. Randy Savage vs Tito Santana 6. Jerry Lawler vs Eddie Gilbert 7. Von Erichs vs Dynamic Duno 8. Rey Misterio Jr vs Dean Malenko 9. Low Ki vs Homicide 10. Kazunari Murakami vs Yuki Ishikawa None of these feuds had matches make the top 100 and almost all of these people had more famous feuds/rivals than these (except the Moondogs, Dynamic Duno & maybe Gilbert) yet all of them have matches that are contenders. A top 100 feuds/rivals list would be tough because it would be kind of impossible to ignore stuff like angles/promo/interviews etc. Dusty vs Superstar Graham would almost certainly make a top 100 feuds/rivals list for me for example. Lawler vs Kaufman is like a top 10 contender. Then you have entire promotion wide stuff like UWF vs NJPW, NJPW vs WAR, Gringos Locos vs AAA etc. Austin vs McMahon. WCW vs NWO. Shit. Look at just Jerry Lawler's feuds/rivals excluding Dundee and Terry Funk (no order just off the top of my head) 1. Lawler vs Dutch Mantell 2. Lawler vs Snowman 3. Lawler vs Kaufman 4. Lawler vs Jimmy Hart 5. Lawler vs Eddie Gilbert 6. Lawler vs Randy Savage 7. Lawler & Jarrett vs Moondogs 8. Lawler vs Austin Idol & Tommy Rich 9. Lawler vs Kerry 10. Lawler vs Bret Hart 11. Lawler vs ECW 12. Lawler vs Bockwinkel (WTF I forgot about THAT!) 13. Lawler vs Jackie Fargo Literally 13 (15 if you include Dundee & Funk which you obviously would) all would be contenders for a top 100 Greatest Feuds/Rivalry ever sort of list (and probably a third of them top GOAT contenders). In addition to multiple Dundee & Funk matches, I had a Lawler match against Mantell and Idol on my GME top 100 list. There will absolutely be a Moondogs vs Lawler/Jarrett match on my next list too. There are soooo many great feuds/rivalries I'm not sure what even counts as under the radar great but probably some of these. Wrestling is the best.
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Post by elliott on Sept 30, 2019 2:59:53 GMT -5
The biggest ones that I love that haven't been brought up would be stuff like: Dusty vs Four Horsemen Piper vs Valentine Dump vs Chigusa Flair vs Morton Flair vs Savage Fujiwara vs Super Tiger Funks vs Abby & Sheik Terry Funk vs Sabu Ishigundan vs Seikigun Ishingundan vs AJPW Hansen vs Baba Satanico & Co vs Ultimo Guerrero & Co Santo vs Espanto Jr Hashimoto vs Ogawa KDX vs M-Pro AJW vs JWP vs LLPW Kandori vs Hotta Liger vs Sano Liger & Partner vs Kikuchi & Partner
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Post by microstatistics on Sept 30, 2019 4:22:52 GMT -5
I think Ikeda vs. Ishikawa is the GOAT rivalry when you consider singles, tags, multi-mans, longevity etc.
Some others I thought of (possibly some under the radar ones)
Kawada vs. Albright Regal vs. Ambrose Steamboat vs. Rude Bret vs. DBS Han vs. Yamamoto Han vs. Kohsaka Han vs. Nagai Tamura vs. Kohsaka Tamura vs. Han Yamamoto vs. Kohsaka Atlantis vs. V3 Brock vs. Cena Austin vs. Rock Yoshida vs. Fukawa Fujinami vs. Hashimoto HBK vs. Jericho HBK vs. Taker Joe vs. Punk Satanico vs. Lizmark Eddie vs. Angle Kudo vs. Kandori Kudo vs. Ozaki Tenryu vs. Takada Naito vs. Styles Ohtani vs. Tajiri Naito vs. Tanahashi Kobashi vs. Tenryu 05 Fujinami vs. Tenryu Liger vs. Sasuke
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Post by KB8 on Sept 30, 2019 7:59:13 GMT -5
Man, I forgot an absolute shit load.
Dusty v The Horsemen, with all the angles and promos taken into account, might actually be my favourite US feud ever. Watching it all chronologically on Will's Horsemen comp is really incredible.
Flair v Morton is another one.
The most impressive thing about Lawler v Dundee as a rivalry is that they revisited it a ton of times by running it as an actual feud and I don't think it ever felt stale or like they were retreading old ground. '77 was different from '83 which was different from '85, just picking out three examples. Their history built a little more every time and added extra layers. Memphis was good, man.
I can't believe I forgot Fabs/Moondogs.
Houston/Mid-South had a fuckton that I love as well. The Hector Guerrero/Jose Lothario feud that morphed into Hector & Chavo v Lothario was so much fun and produced one of my ten favourite matches of the 80s (Hector v Jose Mexican Death Match).
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