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Post by Cap on Dec 8, 2017 20:22:21 GMT -5
Black Terry vs Wotan (Chilanga Mask - 8/21/2016)
2016 was the year of Black Terry as far as I am concerned. He had three matches that made my top 10 and this was my number one match with a bullet. This is the epitome of a fight. It is the best thing I have probably seen in all the 10s. Wrestling does a lot a lot of things, but one of the things it does is that it slows down a real fight and spreads it out in a way you can actually see what is happening. This is the epitome of that. The end of this match sees Wotan with a bloody hand-print on his back (which is dusty from them fighting on GRAVEL) and two dudes who might actually be in a fight all the sudden. Unreal. I can't see this not on my list.
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Post by philschneider on Jan 4, 2018 12:11:39 GMT -5
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Post by jr on Jan 4, 2018 23:19:36 GMT -5
I like this match a lot, and it's in a style that I think will end being favored on my ballot because on some level, to me, greatness is tied in to how visceral a match is. It was a top 5 match for me last year. I could see it being toward the back end of a ballot.
Strangely enough, I think there are stronger matches from both guys that have yet to be nominated.
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Post by philschneider on Jan 4, 2018 23:49:36 GMT -5
Both guys??? I could see Terry, but I haven't seen a Wotan match that is even in the same universe.
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Post by joeg on Jan 5, 2018 3:56:18 GMT -5
Wow just watched this. I love the intensity and the raw hatred in this match. Its the sort of match I would have loved as a teenager. But now I'm watching it and am thinking "is he really trying to break a bottle that hasn't been gimmicked over the other guys head? That's not safe." Also was there a long heated feud between these two that I just hadn't seen much of? Could somebody point me in the direction of some of the matches leading up to this, I feel like I witnessed an attempted manslaughter here but I don't know the context behind the match that lead to this violence. Thanks
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Post by Cap on Jan 5, 2018 8:18:48 GMT -5
My understanding is that there wasn't a big buildup. It sort of came out of nowhere i think. In a lot of reviews from people more familiar with the scene I saw a lot of "I don't know why, but it is clear that Wotan hates Terry" Maybe there is some sort of context I am missing, bu part of the appeal here is that these dudes just come out and have a fight.
I have watched this match probably 5 times in the past year and change and it gets better every time. It never loses that visceral brutality (obviously), but there is more nuance under the surface that I feel like I pick up on each time. This match might end insanely high on my list.
As for better matches from both, I hope someone nominates them and provides some links. I know a little Black Terry and I did a quick youtube diver or two on Wotan after seeing this one, but haven't really seen anything that touches it (Terry has some good ones that are probably close though). My perspective is limited though.
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Post by tetsujin on Jan 5, 2018 8:27:20 GMT -5
Black Terry is one of those guys I need to watch... everything. But I don't have any idea where to start from, 'cause I'm not familiarized with modern lucha at all. Any other suggests, a list or something?
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Post by philschneider on Jan 5, 2018 9:57:34 GMT -5
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Post by tetsujin on Jan 5, 2018 12:13:26 GMT -5
YESSSS! Thanks a lot.
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Post by jr on Jan 6, 2018 16:40:29 GMT -5
Both guys??? I could see Terry, but I haven't seen a Wotan match that is even in the same universe. Wotan has had an awesome year this year. He may not quite reach these heights, but what we have from the Caifan match this year looks incredible and the Impulso match is something I could see someone liking more if they have a style preference for the stunt based deathmatch style. |
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Post by fxnj on Jun 24, 2018 9:36:32 GMT -5
I've really got to give these guys credit. The match does an excellent of presenting a disturbing level of violence without ever really slowing down. You've got the gravel fight, some sick as fuck chairshots, and all kinds of ludicrous headbutts that had me screaming at the screen. It's a very entertaining match and I do rate this pretty highly, so my criticisms are strictly in regards to the idea of it as being an all-time classic.
All that said, come on, best match of the 10s? Really? What set this apart from stuff like Lesnar/Reigns, KENTA/Sugiura, Ishii/Shibata, Kana/Satomura, or the best of the Futen stuff? There's been no shortage of matches this decade making a violent spectacle out of guys stiffing each other like they do here, many of which have had much deeper psychology and storytelling than what happened here. I'll admit they did bring the violence to disturbing levels, probably moreso than any of the matches I listed, but I've seen my fair share of deathmatches so just violence in itself isn't enough for me to regard a match as top-tier.
Seriously, what was the psychology of this? It just kind of struck as them taking turns beating on each other. I would be interested in what the nuances are that I might not be picking up on.
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Post by bossrock on Jun 24, 2018 10:07:30 GMT -5
I've really got to give these guys credit. The match does an excellent of presenting a disturbing level of violence without ever really slowing down. You've got the gravel fight, some sick as fuck chairshots, and all kinds of ludicrous headbutts that had me screaming at the screen. It's a very entertaining match and I do rate this pretty highly, so my criticisms are strictly in regards to the idea of it as being an all-time classic. All that said, come on, best match of the 10s? Really? What set this apart from stuff like Lesnar/Reigns, KENTA/Sugiura, Ishii/Shibata, Kana/Satomura, or the best of the Futen stuff? There's been no shortage of matches this decade making a violent spectacle out of guys stiffing each other like they do here, many of which have had much deeper psychology and storytelling than what happened here. I'll admit they did bring the violence to disturbing levels, probably moreso than any of the matches I listed, but I've seen my fair share of deathmatches so just violence in itself isn't enough for me to regard a match as top-tier. Seriously, what was the psychology of this? It just kind of struck as them taking turns beating on each other. I would be interested in what the nuances are that I might not be picking up on. I sort of feel the same way. Really good match, but when it comes to asking myself "Is this one of the best 100 matches ever?", I just don't see it. |
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Post by [Darren] on Jun 12, 2022 7:10:32 GMT -5
Admittedly, I didn’t give this match much praise a few years ago. I think this is something I had to age into. I just got down watching this thing. First off, I love the flea-market, dirt and rocks aesthetic. I also love it because this just feels like the fight that would happen if these two got overserved and got into a fight throughout the grounds and just took it too far. The gritty, realness is the draw but the spectacle is the extent to which the brutality goes.
Black Terry is the type of wrestler I didn’t think could exist in this a day and age but I’m glad he does.
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Post by puroraisedme on Apr 28, 2023 5:10:40 GMT -5
I was finally able to watch this a couple days ago and it was incredible. A bloody, gritty, gross, and violent match filled with nasty chair shots and both men slapping the piss out of eachother. By the end of the match both men were covered in blood, dirt, and whatever the hell else was on the ground that day. I loved every second of this match.
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Post by elliott on Oct 10, 2023 23:47:51 GMT -5
I haven't watched this in years & remember thinking it was kinda overrated but I was wrong. It rules. MOTDC.
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