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Post by elliott on Dec 3, 2017 17:26:46 GMT -5
Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee (“No DQ, Loser Leaves Town, Dundee’s Hair on the Line” – Memphis – 12/30/1985) My highest ranked American match ever and a top 10 contender. Lawler’s selling here is one of the best I’ve ever seen as he has the eye covered up and Dundee just focuses on it like a laser. One of the best storytelling matches ever. Insane heat, blood, best punches ever, ridiculous bumps. This is Lawler at his best.
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Post by Cap on Dec 3, 2017 21:27:28 GMT -5
Second
I liked all three of their LLT matches, but this is my personal favorite. The eye patch, the punches, the bumps, the story they told in this one... I just love it. This will be a real contender for top 10 for me. I think its up their with the best from any era or part of the world. Must see match that I am really looking forward to putting up against other classics, especially some of the best lucha brawls.
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Post by microstatistics on Jan 4, 2018 17:18:02 GMT -5
Outstanding heel work by Dundee. Agree that this is probably Lawler's masterpiece. The finest selling of his career combined with his best and most gripping comeback. All time great brawl and the pinnacle of the minimalist Memphis style.
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Post by superstarsleeze on Jul 22, 2018 20:36:36 GMT -5
I prefer the 83 match now and I think this match has more hate in it than the 83 match but everything in the 83 match matters. Everything. I love when Dundee tackles Lawler. This should still make it. God so much good pro wrestling.
AWA Southern Heavyweight Champion Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - Memphis 12/30/85 Lawler Leaves Town vs Hair of the Dundees
So a shit ton has happened since the TV match where Dundee tricked Lawler into losing the Southern Championship so he could face Flair. Lawler ended up missing a bunch of bookings so Lance Russell went to his house and found him sloshed on the ground with empties all around him. Lawler claimed it was all Dundee's fault. I think this was a ruse to lure Dundee into a false sense of security. Then on Memphis TV we get the Hawaiian Flash, which is very clearly Jerry Jarrett to Dundee and Lance. Jarrett wants him to sign a match with the Hawaiian Flash and in return Dundee will get a shot at the tag titles. Dundee jumps at the offer figuring he can polish off the elderly, skinny Jarrett easily. However, he signed for a match with the Hawaiian Flash so when it comes bell time it is Lawler under the hood. Dundee & Co. bum rush the Flash and Jerry Jarrett until the Fabs save with chairs. At some point, Dundee makes an alliance with Dutch Mantell and they win the tag titles. Dundee wants the last belt, which Koko Ware has, but Ware wants Dundee to put his title shot on the line and Dundee loses his title shot to Koko Ware and Ware gets to face Flair. Dundee is pissed. Lawler vs Dundee happens on 12/21, I believe and this time it is Lawler's wife's hair on the line against the title and Lawler wins the belt back. So now in order to get a rematch, Bill Dundee has put up his hair and Beverly Dundee's hair against Lawler leaving Memphis and winning the championship. What a build! I fucking love it! Then before the match Dutch and Dundee did a number on Lawler's eye so now Lawler has a huge bandage over his right eye and is at a sincere disadvantage in this high stakes match.
Lawler is pissed at Dutch early and takes his eye off Dundee and gets walloped. Dundee kicks Lawler's ass for the majority of the beginning of the match. I thought both wrestlers gave a tremendous performance especially Lawler in how he was selling. He looked vulnerable, he was trying his bet to fight back and he was very convincing in his debilitated vision causing him to be confused and missing the mark with his punches. Dundee was relentless in this match. He was more vicious in this match. He threw Calhoun down early on. Dundee felt like even more of a prick in this match. He was clawing at the eye. I love the part where Dundee is baiting Lawler and he is basically tripping over himself trying to desperately to punch this little shit while Dundee peppers him with shots and is gloating and taunting him and the fans. There is a kick to the bad eye and you can hear the yelps from Lawler. Nasty headbutt from Dundee right into the bad eye and then a double stomp. I love the constant pinfalls as Dundee is clearly trying to win the match and rid himself of the scourge of Jerry Lawler. There is a great spot where Dundee goes around to Lawler's blind spot and punching him. Lawler finally scores with a big punch. Dundee lashes out in shock and anger just bowling him over. I LOVED THAT REACTION! He comes crashing down on Lawler, but can only get two. Jabs back to the bad eye and now gnawing it. Awesome Dundee strike exchange and Lawler comes off the ropes blasting Dundee, who punches Lawler, but falls on his ass. Clip, NO! Lawler throws Dundee into a table and everyone counts along with Lawler and Calhoun. Dundee breaks the count and grabs his wife. Arena brawling in 1985! Lawler takes a crazy tumble over the railing on the raised stairs. Now that was a great countout false finish! Lawler feels like he is in so much more danger of losing in this match than in the '83 match. Lawler makes his way back to the ring only to eat a baseball slide. Dundee throws him into the post and end is nigh for the King of Memphis. Lawler pulls himself back into the ring and Dundee throws wicked punches, but Lawler wants more! STRAP DOWN~! Crowd gives that those big sound effects to every punch. Lawler blows Dundee away, but he falls down from that. THIS IS FUCKING AWESOME! FIST DROP! HUGE RIGHT! Some dude identified as Tony Falk hands Dundee something and he throws it into the eyes of Lawler and wins the match! LAWLER LOST??!?!?! WHAT THE FUCK!
Holy shit, I had no idea. That was crazy. I loved this moreso than the 83 one. I thought this was way more Memphis. The 83 match is probably the best possible execution of the Lawler formula whereas this was probably the best possible Memphis match. You had the crazy soap opera back story, the Mrs. Dundee's involvement, Jerry going into the match half-blind, Dundee as a cocky shit, crazy bump out in the middle of the arena, a great bullshit ending to put the heel over. I think '83 match has the better ending and is a better feel good match. I think the Idol match had the crazier finish. I think Dutch match had the better work. The Bam Bam match still has the best story. For my money, this match is perfect confluence of soap opera and pro wrestling and high drama. This is also the only match you really feel like Lawler will lose. There have been surprises before like in the Idol and Dutch matches where he does lose, but you dont think it will happen. This is a match where you are like he is going to lose because how bad of a shit kicking he is taking so then you believe in him more than that his comeback will be all the more unstoppable only for him to still lose. I think we are missing too much of the match for me to go the full 5 stars. ****3/4
P.S. So we miss about 16 minutes of a 23 minute match and in the badass music set to "Burning Heart" we see nasty piledriver by both men and Dundee hitting the Whoopie Cushion from the top. Holy shit! This match is even better than I thought it was. Wish we had it in full!
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Post by Cap on Jul 24, 2018 14:05:15 GMT -5
From my rewatch project on 6/26/2018 Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee (Loser Leaves Town vs The Dundees Hair – Southern Heavyweight Title – 12/30/1985) Current Rank: 16 Trending: Even Of the Memphis Wrestling holy trinity of LLT matches between Dundee and Lawler, this is my favorite. It’s ranked high, really high. In all reality it might move down a spot or two. When I think of it in comparison to another match I recently revisited in Espanto Jr vs El Hijo Del Santo (19), I see them in very similar terms. I love the match, but it might be susceptible to getting jumped because it got such a prominent spot on my first draft. Regardless, it will likely wind up around this genera tier. The match’s strengths are the crisp and unique punch exchanges and the sense of chaos that worked beautifully into the story they were telling. Its weaknesses are few, so it will really come down to the degree to which I am ultimately invested in what they are doing vs my investment in other matches. This represents to me the best this time and place had to offer and really captures why Lawler particularly is so celebrated in many circles. Full Post: gweproject.freeforums.net/thread/657/caps-watching-project-reports?page=1#ixzz5MCUOpiZgI also didn't realize we were missing quite so much. This might fall a bit for that once I dig in on that a bit.
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Post by nintendologic on Aug 13, 2019 20:02:18 GMT -5
I just realized that this match might not actually be eligible for nomination. The version I have, which I believe is the version most everyone else has, contains 14:38 of ring action (bell to start is at 0:28 and bell to end is at 15:06). Official match time is 22:42, so less than two-thirds of the match is shown. Unless there's a more complete version in circulation, it falls short of the 70% rule.
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Post by Cap on Aug 13, 2019 20:45:27 GMT -5
Yeah... I wondered about this. Is that the longest version we have? It would be a shame for this to fall out. I am not for a rule change just to get a single match in, but if we - as a community - feel like we know enough to rate it then we may want to reconsider the %.
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Post by microstatistics on Aug 13, 2019 22:29:03 GMT -5
This match has been part of the canon for awhile so I'm not sure if it should be disqualified based on an arbitrary 70% rule. But then again I'm biased considering this made my Top 50. Also I think we should consider the pre-match ambush since the greatness of a match is not strictly restricted to bell to bell.
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Post by elliott on Aug 13, 2019 23:03:58 GMT -5
I agree with micro, but admit I'm aggressively biased towards this match.
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Post by KB8 on Aug 14, 2019 6:00:09 GMT -5
I'll have it top 10 so I agree with micro as well and will also fight you all.
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Post by Cap on Aug 14, 2019 7:47:12 GMT -5
It was on my list. I don't want to nix it either.
Just going off the numbers nintindologic gave us, how about this... We have 64% of this match. This proves we can have at least this much of a match and think it is great. So why don't we set it at "Roughly 65%" with the caveat that there is flexibility if people want to make a clear case for a match with slightly less. I would be in favor of a hard cap at 50% though.
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Post by nintendologic on Aug 14, 2019 7:53:05 GMT -5
I was going to suggest having 60% as a hard floor and anything between 60 and 70% can be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. We're all pretty good about policing ourselves, so I don't think we have to worry about that opening the floodgates.
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Post by Cap on Aug 14, 2019 12:25:58 GMT -5
I'm good with that.
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Post by Cap on Aug 12, 2020 18:10:29 GMT -5
Interesting that the last discussion of this match was about the clipping. I think I am bothered by clipping of matches more than some, but not all clipping is created equal. I was putting this next to what wound up being some top 15 matches to me. I put it directly up against Nagayo/Devil and watched it around the time I watched Chicana/Perro and Suzuki/Sano. It winds up dropping a bit... and I honestly think it is just down to clipping (and the way it breaks things up). For example, Chicana/Perro has clipping, but it feels relatively minor in terms of breaking flow and making me feel like I missed something next to this. That is just a little extra context. The long and short of this is, when we are dealing with the top 100, let alone the top 50-60... this kinda thing is the difference for me. From my rewatch project on 8/8/2020 Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee (Loser Leaves Town vs Hair – Southern Heavyweight Title – 12/30/1985) Current Rank: 43 Trending: Down This is really unfair. It is a product of the clipping more than the match than anything I think. This is at least the second time where I have watched this match next to matches near it and thought… I have to drop it a bit, but that sucks. From what we have here, this has legit top 10-15 potential. Unfortunately, by the 14 minute mark we get told we are missing about 1/3 of the match. I think it feels a bit disjointed after we get past Dundee’s initial beatdown of Lawler, and I want to give it the benefit of the doubt that everything works in there and looks as awesome as what we have (no reason not to)… but I can’t say that for sure. I also come away wishing the end had more teeth to it. I think it works for the story they were telling and the broader context they were in, but it always feels like it doesn’t quite live up to the rest of the match. It isn’t even that it was a shady finish or lacked a “finisher”. I watched this right after Chicana vs Perro, which ends in a rollup, and that match felt much more like the ending matched the story. This just comes up a hair short for me every time. All of this, especially that last part, is being SUPER picky, but we are talking top 50 matches ever and the competition is rough. Full Post: gweproject.freeforums.net/post/8310
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Post by mvz on Mar 26, 2021 3:11:10 GMT -5
You can see how Dundee has evolved since 1983 as it relates to Lawler. He seems more violent and more willing to do anything as the backstory suggests. Lawler does a great job selling his being disoriented and Dundee is nasty. This match feels more outwardly expressive than 1983, which I guess is more my style. Lawlers bump over the railing is an all-timer, I was not expecting that. The finish has to be a big surprise at the time, but watching now it was clear that this was too much for Lawler to overcome. Really good match, easy to connect with.
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