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Post by elliott on Jan 8, 2024 22:27:55 GMT -5
Angle was a really bad choice in 2002. Kobashi in 1996 for the same reasons. Choshu in 1987 always struck me as weird given that he missed time due to jumping promotions but 80s WON readers weren't going to give Hogan credit.
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Post by Kadaveri on Jan 9, 2024 1:18:23 GMT -5
Mox for 2019 is an interesting one unless I'm misremembering that the time period for that to be evaluated is July-June correct? No it's just the entire calendar year. You're probably thinking of with the Pro Wrestling Illustrated rankings, they do it July-June. At first glance, Kurt Angle in 2002 seems confusing. Wasn’t he slotted in the mid-card for almost the whole year actually? I know it was a very acclaimed year for him in-ring which obviously explains a Most Outstanding win but unless I’m missing some significant context, how was he chosen as the wrestler having the most significant year in the business. He wasn’t even headlining shows that year so I can’t imagine drawing power was a rationale. Long time no see! I think Kurt Angle winning in 2002 is mainly a result of the wrestling industry virtually collapsing everywhere except for WWE, who didn't give anyone a sustained run on top that year, so it's not like anyone really had a strong case. |
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Post by elliott on Jan 9, 2024 2:16:17 GMT -5
Had Rock not left to make a movie after SummerSlam, he would have won. He should've won anyway.
looking at an old thread on wrestlingclassics, here are the names mentioned in 2002 (some fun ones)
Rock, Angle, Lesnar, Low Ki, Shocker, Eddy Guerrero, Silver King, Satoshi Kojima, Kensuke Sasaki, Keiji Muto, Yoshihio Takayama, Jerry Lynn, Danielson, Bob Sapp, La Parka, El Hijo del Santo, Vanderlei Silva, AJ Styles are all mentioned as people who would get votes.
Yoshinari Ogawa, Yuji Nagata, Tadao Yasuda & Jun Akiyama were brought up as "how bout these guys" and all dismissed.
I voted for ROck at the time and probably Parka & Santo as my 2 & 3 in some order as I was all about lucha back then.
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Post by tetsujin on Jan 9, 2024 5:16:56 GMT -5
Angle seems like a much better choice for 2001, when he was pushed into a main eventer and was super hot as the next big babyface, until Rock returned and Vince made him turn, anyway. It's a great in ring year for him, too.
2021 for Omega is dumb when you have peak Reigns there. The belt collector run is one of the most overrated things in recent years.
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Post by makaiclub on Jan 9, 2024 10:29:11 GMT -5
Had Rock not left to make a movie after SummerSlam, he would have won. He should've won anyway. looking at an old thread on wrestlingclassics, here are the names mentioned in 2002 (some fun ones) Rock, Angle, Lesnar, Low Ki, Shocker, Eddy Guerrero, Silver King, Satoshi Kojima, Kensuke Sasaki, Keiji Muto, Yoshihio Takayama, Jerry Lynn, Danielson, Bob Sapp, La Parka, El Hijo del Santo, Vanderlei Silva, AJ Styles are all mentioned as people who would get votes. Yoshinari Ogawa, Yuji Nagata, Tadao Yasuda & Jun Akiyama were brought up as "how bout these guys" and all dismissed. I voted for ROck at the time and probably Parka & Santo as my 2 & 3 in some order as I was all about lucha back then. When I think about it, you're maybe right. He main evented Rumble , should've main evented WM 18 (not that it mattered), had his return being the main draw of KOTR and main evented Vengance and Summerslam in two kick ass matches. It never really occurred to me until just. Rock is absolutely the right choice for 2002. His work was pretty good as well. The 3-way and Brock match has been stated, the Hogan match is an obvious one, the Jericho match is pretty good, some good tv matches against Eddie and Flair, etc. Angle is an decent winner though considering the back end of the year but Rock does stand out now. |
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Post by timm on Jan 9, 2024 11:12:55 GMT -5
2002 Angle seems like a really "of the moment" pick. He was really pushing the WWE main event style in a workrate direction of the type that WON readers get behind that year. Even though WWE ring work improved majorly in 2000 and 2001, Angle in 2002 turned it into more of an athletic counter/nearfall based style than before, and it's stuck that way since.
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Post by nintendologic on Jan 9, 2024 17:41:20 GMT -5
Keep in mind that Rock only wrestled five months out of the year and didn't work house shows at all. And most of the shows he was on didn't even draw that well. The Hogan match did end up being the most memorable of that year, but hindsight is 20/20. 2002 was just a really rough year for pro wrestling across the board. Trying to pick a WOTY for that year is like trying to pick the MVP of a season where every team finishes with a losing record (which I'm pretty sure isn't mathematically possible, but bear with me). Meltzer even wrote at the time it was the weakest year in history for that category. I suppose that makes 2002 the year with the worst WOTY winner because all the candidates had marks against them that would be disqualifying in just about any other year.
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Post by elliott on Jan 9, 2024 17:48:56 GMT -5
He shouldn't have won in 2001, but Angle was definitely a better candidate that year than he was in 2002. 2002 at the time felt like a real stagnation in his progression as he settled into an upper mid card role. Angle spent most of the year working with people like Rikishi, Edge, Kane, Rey Jr & Benoit. He actually had only one PPV main event during the 12/01-11/02 voting period and it was in a Triple Threat with Rock & Undertaker. Kurt was in there to eat the fall so Rock could win the title without Taker losing. There's a reason hardcore fans spent so much time bitching about the glass ceiling in regards to Angle, Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero etc. It's becasue they were clearly positioned behind the "real stars" like Austin, Rock (when they were around), HHH, and Undertaker. Even Brock had a more interesting year than Kurt. It was very much a step back year for him after 2001. He won due to a perceived dearth of strong candidates (people didn't want to vote for Rock, Austin missed too much time & HHH & Undertaker were villains, & WON readers ignore Mexico) and because he was considered an "all around performer." He was a highly visible performer who with Benoit missing most of the year was considered the best in-ring performer in the company but also one of the best characters in skits & talkers. People were falling over themselves to compare him to Ric Flair as a performer combining the in-ring & out of ring. They were just missing the part where Flair was doing it in the main event and Kurt was doing it in the middle of the card  |
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Post by elliott on Jan 9, 2024 17:54:56 GMT -5
Do we have the Jericho vs Rock match from Yokohoma in 2002? Cagematch says it was on TV
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Post by Control21 on Jan 9, 2024 17:57:55 GMT -5
Do we have the Jericho vs Rock match from Yokohoma in 2002? Cagematch says it was on TV Apparently only highlights made it on tape, but I could be wrong. |
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Post by elliott on Jan 9, 2024 18:00:30 GMT -5
Maybe one day!
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Post by fxnj on Jan 10, 2024 6:41:43 GMT -5
Takayama seems like a strong candidate for 2002. Legendary PRIDE fight with Frye, Nagata Tokyo Dome main event, GHC title win over Ogawa and defense vs. Misawa at Budokan, and a strong G1 showing. Bob Sapp also looks like a strong candidate if we go with the funny "PRIDE is pro wrestling" idea. Instantly made himself into a huge name and headlined the biggest show of the year with the fight that made Big Nog a star. Also had some fun stuff in AJPW to end the year.
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Post by elliott on Jan 11, 2024 0:48:37 GMT -5
Agree on Takayama in 2002
CHris Jericho having as many wins as Mitsuharu Misawa and as many as John Cena, Jumbo Tsuruta & Hulk Hogan combined is certainly a thing.
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