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Post by smash1992 on Jan 18, 2018 9:24:44 GMT -5
Hope no one votes for the Lawler vs. Funk empty arena match.
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Post by Cap on Jan 18, 2018 10:42:04 GMT -5
I think Supremebve makes a good point. I still think in the abstract a dead crowd doesn't and wouldn't hinder a match for me on the whole. I can think of some good examples of matches that I like with dead crowds. I am, however, off the top of my head having trouble coming up with matches that I think are elite - matches for this list - that have dead crowds (save the empty arena match or anything of that ilk). Maybe it is something more functional though. Even though I wouldn't knock a match in theory, maybe great matches do more or less always ignite crowds.
Can anyone provide a few examples of matches they will be voting for that had dead crowds or crowds that could actively take some people out of a match.
I suppose some Japanese crowds could border on his, but they tend to build their energy level with the match. Those aren't really dead crowds.
On the hand I can think of plenty of examples where the crowd brings me into the match. Punk/Cena from MITB is the best example. I liked the match, but in a vacuum I don't think it is elite. It is 4.75 for me because of the crowd and the build as much as anything.
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Post by microstatistics on Mar 4, 2018 16:35:36 GMT -5
Crowd heat is like a bonus to me, if it's a bad crowd I can't really count that against the match, however a great crowd is a big bonus. I never fully understand this, because I believe the responsibility of a wrestler is to entertain the crowd who came to see them work. If the paying customers aren't entertained, the wrestlers failed at some level. Don't get me wrong, there are matches I love with little or no crowd heat, but I don't know if I can make a case for greatest match ever for any match that didn't engage the people who spent their money and time to go see the match. Jan 17, 2018 9:10:34 GMT -8 maddog1981 said: I would say a dead crowd would disqualify it for me. Part of what makes the Rock/Hogan match at Mania so memorable is they rolled with what the crowd wanted. It was a mediocre match but it was an absolute clinic in working a crowd for every ounce of energy they had. Or look at Misterio/Dragon from WW3. That crowd wasn't there for them but that crowd was completely in to what they were doing. I think dead crowd means you weren't doing your jobs. It's kind of the equal of racking up great garbage time stats in other sports. It looks pretty on paper but it's ultimately meaningless. This is pretty much what I was trying to say, but better. While I can understand these points of view, I have to disagree with them. I agree that a great crowd can significantly enhance a match but it's harsh to ding the wrestlers' work if the crowd is not reacting. They are performing for more than just the live audience and if the actual work is of high quality and holds up on its own, then it's unfair to dismiss it as meaningless. Plus usually hot crowds are hot from the very beginning, very rarely do wrestlers "win them over" anyways. A lot of times I feel crowd heat is out of the wrestlers' hands anyways and depends on a lot of external factors. Also, personally, I couldn't care less if a crowd is entertained. A great crowd is one that is fully invested and reacting to what is going on and is with the wrestlers every step of the way. Not one that is having fun and congratulating themselves and the wrestlers for putting on a classic with cutesy chants and what not. Loud/noisy alone does not equal a great crowd. I'd take pin drop silence over that anyday. Unfortunately, that's not an option in today's landscape and you sort of have to go with it.
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