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Post by elliott on Dec 4, 2017 1:26:18 GMT -5
El Hijo del Santo vs Espanto Jr (Mask vs Mask - Monterrey - 8/31/86) This will be my highest ranked Santo match that doesn't involve Negro Casas. And it might rank higher than at least one of the Casas matches. Espanto Jr is really the best Santo opponent that wasn't Casas. This is a fucking classic match. I love the hand-held close up camera we get. That plus the crowd and Santo's whole aura really make this feel like a battle between two comic book super heroes. Little kids running up and patting Santo on the back while he's selling in between falls is all that is great about wrestling. It probably won't make my top 20, but I think it is a top 20 contender if that makes sense.
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Post by Cap on Dec 4, 2017 11:10:57 GMT -5
Second
God I love this match. I may be one of the highest votes on this one. It could be my highest Santo match PERIOD. I just think this is such a violent and compelling spectacle that doesn't at all lack grace and nuance. This is probably my second or third favorite lucha match from the 80s (of what I have seen). This match is - to me - pretty close to flawless.
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Post by jr on Jan 6, 2018 17:48:42 GMT -5
A high mark of 80s lucha. I would say that it's probably a top 10 match of the decade for me.
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Post by Cap on Jun 27, 2018 17:09:02 GMT -5
From my rewatch project write up. You can find the full write up with comparisons to other matches here: gweproject.freeforums.net/thread/657/caps-watching-project-reports#ixzz5JfM8Yt6fEl Hijo Del Santo vs Espanto Jr (Mask vs Mask – 8/31/1986) Current Rank: 19 Trending: Up/Down I don’t know what to do with this match. I might have come away less sure of this than any match I have approached specifically for this project. I loved it the first time I saw it and I didn’t really feel much different about it this time. I did, however, feel like it didn’t grab me quite like it did the first time, making me think 19 might be optimistic. I mean, that is high high praise. That said, it sticks with me. When matches stick with me a day or two after I watch them I know there is something more for me to appreciate in them. Two days after watching it again and that is how I feel. The final run here is the stuff of absolute legend. I am becoming increasingly convinced that El Hijo Del Santo is maybe the best wrestler ever and this is an all-time hate filled performance from both men. Still, I am not necessarily moving it right now, but I can honestly imagine it moving up or down at this point. This one might need to get the side-by-side treatment with some of the true top shelf outings (if there is time) for me to get a proper feel for where it will land.
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Post by mvz on Dec 18, 2021 7:00:34 GMT -5
I ranked this 30th on my ballot and included these comments:
This was on the bubble but I gave it a big bump after checking it out one last time. Espanto's execution makes routine moves like snapmares look like they are causing serious damage. Santo sells the beating so well, and the crowd encouragement makes this feel special. I had kind of forgotten what happens after that, but it was amazing. Santo's comeback is a special one, there is a real escalation of violence in the third fall, and the finish is cathartic.
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Post by club on Jan 20, 2022 5:49:56 GMT -5
This had everything I like in an apuesta match. Grit and violence. The only thing I'd add to what others have said is how the camera work gave it a unique vibe in comparision to similar matches. The wobbly handheld, the weird sound levels, the focus on Santo, especially between falls. It felt as if you were watching an arthouse documentary.
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Post by puropotsy on Jun 1, 2023 18:21:35 GMT -5
This had some obviously great stuff but the footage was not good enough for me to feel I could rate as a whole. Plus, I am somewhat averse to mask-ripping and that seemed to be what the best footage was of.
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Post by mrjmml on Jun 1, 2023 18:45:45 GMT -5
It's one of the best apuestas ever. I really like it and the history between these two is very interesting.
My review:
This match is historically significant. These two are second generation wrestlers and their fathers had a legendary match 23 years before this happened, in 1963. El Santo defeated Espanto and he had to unmask forever. 20 years after this match El Santo's son debuted with all the pressure in his shoulders to live up to expectations and he did exactly that. It took only 3 years to put his mask on the line with the son of his father's nemesis Espanto Jr and with this in mind let's analyze the match. The first fall was decided with a Gori, it was the shortest fall of the entire match designed to set up El Hijo del Santo's comeback intelligently. Espanto Jr won the first fall. Second fall: El Hijo del Santo began doing his moves and holds and Espanto had no answer to that, after a fun exchange where Santo softened his opponent's back and did some pin combinations, he went for a suicide dive right on target and that was the end of the second fall. I think that Espanto Jr looked weak during the last two falls but that's just a minor complain, the match as a whole was awesome. Third fall: There's urgency in every move they do and this can be felt in both corners. The match was out of control and everyone could've won but in this situation. They pulled every trick they had in their back to win but the pride, legacy and fighting spirit of ''El enmascarado de plata'' was too much for Espanto Jr. He was submitted with the legendary camel clutch the submission that also made his father tap almost 23 years ago in a great callback that gave the match the emotional touch it needed to become a quinssential piece among lucha fans.
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Post by [Darren] on Jun 1, 2023 19:38:41 GMT -5
This had some obviously great stuff but the footage was not good enough for me to feel I could rate as a whole. Plus, I am somewhat averse to mask-ripping and that seemed to be what the best footage was of. youtu.be/AdOtsbbtf2Y Did you watch this version ?
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Post by Cap on Jun 1, 2023 20:16:56 GMT -5
This had some obviously great stuff but the footage was not good enough for me to feel I could rate as a whole. Plus, I am somewhat averse to mask-ripping and that seemed to be what the best footage was of. You are averse to mask ripping? That is one of my favorite things in all of wrestling. Why are you averse to it?
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Post by [Darren] on Jun 1, 2023 21:05:06 GMT -5
Mask ripping rules.
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Post by puropotsy on Jun 2, 2023 8:56:22 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the link!!!
This version was night and day from what I first watched, in which I didn’t even notice that Santo was bleeding. The mask-ripping was all about busting open the other guy rather than just a facial peep show and it made a big difference. The action here and building of the falls was excellent as well. The scene of children consoling Santo at ringside was hilarious. I also couldn’t make out the dives in the original footage. The finishing stretch to the use of an awesome looking caballo by Santo to win was epic. Loved this and it should make my list.
Also, my one thing with mask-ripping is that it is often so obvious that someone tries to rip it just to the point that it is almost falling off and then the wearer of said mask spends the rest of the match trying to keep it on to the point that you can make out enough of their face that it ruins the idea that you're trying to unmask someone. I guess I am averse to over-the-top mask-ripping and in the second round of footage I watched this was some of the best I have seen.
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Post by mrjmml on Jun 2, 2023 8:57:58 GMT -5
Mask ripping is the best part of lucha.
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Post by nintendologic on Jun 2, 2023 11:50:42 GMT -5
Count me as a member of Team Mask Ripping.
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Post by Cap on Jun 3, 2023 10:01:57 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the link!!! This version was night and day from what I first watched, in which I didn’t even notice that Santo was bleeding. The mask-ripping was all about busting open the other guy rather than just a facial peep show and it made a big difference. The action here and building of the falls was excellent as well. The scene of children consoling Santo at ringside was hilarious. I also couldn’t make out the dives in the original footage. The finishing stretch to the use of an awesome looking caballo by Santo to win was epic. Loved this and it should make my list. Also, my one thing with mask-ripping is that it is often so obvious that someone tries to rip it just to the point that it is almost falling off and then the wearer of said mask spends the rest of the match trying to keep it on to the point that you can make out enough of their face that it ruins the idea that you're trying to unmask someone. I guess I am averse to over-the-top mask-ripping and in the second round of footage I watched this was some of the best I have seen. I suppose that is fair. I do think mask ripping is at its best when there is enough blood to obscure any good look at a face. I'm just a simple man. Mask rip = cool 99 times out of 100
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