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Post by elliott on Feb 20, 2021 14:39:13 GMT -5
I will add if you rewatch it and say you still don't find JBL's work before the blade job that compelling, I'm not gonna argue it. He definitely pulls out a side headlock and bearhug. I see them as working though and they don't hurt the match for me. THe sideheadlock segment lasts all of one minute. The bearhug lasts about a minute. I've watched Mitsuharu Misawa casually hold Jumbo Tsurta's arms behind his back and rest his knee on Jumbo's back for a minute and people call it a classic match, so I don't really mind the side headlock and the bearhug. They also work psychologically. Eddy's been beating the shit out of JBL at first. JBL gets a little offense in to get Eddy the fuck off of him and then goes to the side headlock as a weardown. Same thing with the bearhug. One minute of weardown to slow down Eddy's comeback. Anyway, great match. Definitely a contender for best WWE match ever.
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Post by elliott on Feb 20, 2021 15:48:48 GMT -5
It basically takes place in segments. The firey Eddy start where he's just trying to beat the shit out of JBL. The JBL control segment which includes the side headlock and bear hug, but it also includes JBL's great looking big boot, the awesome fallaway slam onto the apron and the backdrop onto the announce table. Then the blade job and JBL turns it up with his devastating lariat & powerbomb. Then we get Eddy's brief comeback attempt. The "worst" part of the match is definitely JBL's control segment before the blade job. But its good stuff. Its just all the surrounding stuff is GREAT.
Also, I do think its all pretty impressive considering JBL's career up to this point. How many times did he work 20+minute singles matches in the previous decade prior to that match? There were years of 5 minute APA matches that didn't really help sharpen his ability to work an effective extended control segment.
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Post by witlon on Feb 24, 2021 19:05:28 GMT -5
I'm trying to figure out a way to respond to this, without just posting my full review, so bear with me.
First off, that crowd is fantastic. I don't know how touched on it was in other's thoughts, but they came to see Eddie slay a giant, and reacted big for every sequence that called for it. Control sequence? Big Eddie chant. Huge kickout? Big Eddie chant. That really can't be understated in this match. I'm not against JBL doing minimal here, really until after the bladejob, because it fit the story nicely. Other than the fallaway slam on the floor, and the chairshot, he got almost no offense, and it fit nicely. I do think JBL laid off a bit after he saw Eddie's bladejob (I can't blame him), and didn't attack the cut as much as he could've, but it's not a huge deal.
That being said, the ref bumps were just a bit too much, especially with the long drama segment with Robinson running in. And the finish, I know this the primer to get Bradshaw to the next level, but it just felt like it was there to setup a rematch. I wasn't bored by this, and I'll say I have it down as a really, really, really good match...but just not on the top level for me.
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Post by marksman on Feb 26, 2021 1:34:11 GMT -5
I just watched it for the first time in years, and wow, that delivered. I'm not normally a fan of DQ finishes but it absolutely worked here - JBL gets caught by his own supposed smarts as he brings the belt in which gets used against him, and Eddie delivers a massively satisfying revenge beatdown. As I've said elsewhere on the boards, for me wrestling is at its best when you have a really sympathetic face and an utterly despicable heel, and this is an incredible example of that.
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Post by nintendologic on Aug 20, 2021 16:34:08 GMT -5
I'm taking a detour from my regular reviewing schedule to tackle something that's been on my plate for a while now. To be honest, I had been putting this off because I didn't expect my view of this match to change much if at all and I don't like being a negative Nancy about things other people really enjoy. I prefer to harness the power of positivity and talk about things I do like. But the people have demanded it, so I finally got around to giving this a rewatch. My thoughts in bullet point form:
-The crowd clearly doesn't buy JBL as a main event heel despite his best efforts to rile them up with a race-baiting promo before the match. They're absolutely wild about Eddie, though. And JBL promising to hire Eddie's mother as his maid is some quality cheap heat.
-Great, great opening. They work the first few minutes exactly the way they should with Eddie kicking JBL's ass all over the place and JBL desperately trying to establish separation. JBL gains control after whipping Eddie into the ring steps, and his punches look awesome. So far, so good.
-Unfortunately, things start to go downhill about five and a half minutes in when JBL switches from kick-ass brawling to sitting in holds. The vast majority of the time, the best way for a larger heel to slow down a fiery smaller babyface is to beat the shit out of him, so my patience for holds in brawls and big vs. little matches is limited. If you must slap one on, it had better look really painful or dangerous. That's where JBL really dropped the ball. He was just laying there when he had a headlock on, and he looked like he was having trouble remaining upright and had to lean on Eddie for support while applying a bearhug. It's hard for me to view it as anything more than a waste of time.
-An armdrag sends JBL to the floor, where he catches a plancha and turns it into a fallaway slam. Roughly eight minutes in, both men are selling like they're almost dead. They spend most of the remainder of the match moving at half speed outside of rope-running sequences. That kind of selling can greatly enhance a match, but it has to be earned. They were nowhere near that point.
-Of course, Eddie's bladejob is what this match is best known for. Look, I'm no shrinking violet when it comes to blood in wrestling. But there are limits, and someone nearly bleeding to death goes well beyond what I can consider entertaining.
-Eddie's staggering selling after being busted open was absolutely brilliant, although it's questionable how much of it was really selling with the blood loss and possible concussion from the chairshot.
-We get the 80s WWF standby of the heel hitting his finisher and getting a visual pinfall with the ref down, which is ass-backwards psychology any way you slice it.
-Eddie starting his comeback with a shimmy was incredible, right up there with the best Lawler-dropping-the-strap moments.
-Then there's the ending, which is complete dogshit. All the post-match stuff was intended for Eddie to get his (Latino) heat back and emerge as the moral victor, but it rang hollow for me. More importantly, that kind of finish is only acceptable as a precursor to a decisive babyface triumph. When an ethnic hero is in a racially charged feud with a man who caused his mother to have a heart attack, he has to come out on top in the end. That is non-negotiable. Instead, the vile racist heel ended up having the last laugh when JBL won the championship. Someone watching in real time would have no way of knowing that, but when you watch with that knowledge, the whole thing feels bittersweet.
My view going in is that this would have been much better had it gone 15 minutes at most and was hurt greatly by being stretched out to 23, and that view hasn't really changed. They worked a pace in the opening minutes that they couldn't maintain the whole way through, which is especially problematic when there's a misguided view that main event title matches always have to go at least 20 minutes no matter what (call it HHH-ism). My memory of how much of the match consisted of restholds was indeed off, but my recollection of the overall languorous pace was spot-on. While there were several moments I loved, this still doesn't quite rate for me as an all-time classic.
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Post by KB8 on Apr 13, 2023 14:01:01 GMT -5
Well this is still good. It's the first look at JBL in a big singles spot after he sold the Acolyte Protection Agency and purchased an office space in New York. All of his anti-Latin rhetoric (i.e. blatant racism) leading into this is basically the catalyst for the Trump presidency campaign and the Latin-American community gets to live vicariously through Eddie Guerrero as he kicks the living shit out of the racist millionaire for a few minutes. JBL had also caused Eddie's mother to have a heart attack leading up to this, so naturally Eddie's mood is much different than it was against Angle at Wrestlemania.
The early stuff with Eddie working on top is good and obviously Eddie is great at playing fired up babyface. Bradshaw gets almost nothing and actively begs off, a real cowardly lump. What that early stretch establishes is that Eddie isn't interested in BEATING Bradshaw as opposed to beating the brakes off him. He'll worry about actually winning the match later. You see that when Bradshaw is basically out cold on the floor and the ref' is at nine, so Eddie scoots back in to break it rather than staying in there for the count out win. BUT as he rolls back out JBL catches him and whips him into the steps, which was a nice way to start the transition. That sort of thing happened a few times and was a cool theme throughout -- Eddie being a wee bit overzealous, eager in his pursuit of VENGEANCE, and Bradshaw using it to his advantage. The second instance came shortly after that to properly swing the momentum, with Eddie going for a plancha, JBL catching him and hitting the fallaway slam on the floor.
There was the old Scott Keith talking point about Bradshaw going to the headlock in this because he sucks and needed a rest hold for a while. I don't really care if he was gassed or not but the headlock worked, the way he really leaned his weight on top of Eddie and squeezed the thing tight. Plus you bought him going to that just so he could keep a lid on Eddie, anything that would rein him in and keep his temper in check. When that temper does flare up again Bradshaw bumps nicely off a couple armdrags, but again he can use Eddie's momentum against him as he backdrops him across one of the announcer's tables. JBL working the bearhug keeps with his containment strategy, using his size, not letting Eddie put anything together. The ref' bump off Eddie's comeback has always felt like one of the better ones. It's not contrived or obvious, Eddie just turns and runs into him and Hebner Junior goes flying.
Then they go to the floor and Bradshaw fucking vaporises Eddie with the chair and Eddie's bladejob is the stuff of nightmares. I've seen this match half a dozen times in the last 10 years and it always shocks me how much blood he manages to squirt out his head. Literally seconds after the bladejob he's a total mess and one close-up shot alone elicits a holy shit chant. Everything after that is amazing. I guess a comparison would be Shawn/Undertaker in the cell, with Shawn's bladejob kicking off an epic finishing run. It's one of Eddie's greatest performances and maybe his greatest as a babyface. The blood-loss selling is just fantastic, though I imagine there must've been some of this that wasn't selling. He leaves literal puddles of blood on the mats outside, the canvas, bleeds so much that JBL is covered in it. At one point he actually slips on blood splatter which is just ridiculous and Cole is affronted at the state of him. The ring looks like a butcher's apron and JBL is measuring shots and punching Eddie in the cut, his hands covered in blood damn near up to the elbow. I thought the second ref' bump was great as well, partly because of how Eddie set it up. JBL goes for the lariat and Eddie, nearly bled out, rather than ducking just throws himself at Bradshaw's feet to trip him, or maybe he just fell and happened to land fortuitously, at which point Bradshaw wellies the ref'. The Clothesline from Hell that actually connects is legit Hansen level, then he powerbombs Eddie with so much force it fucking wakes up the first ref'! After Eddie kicks out to a monster pop, JBL immediately covers him again and Eddie's next kick out gets the same pop, which basically never happens but Eddie has lost so much blood that it's a plausible nearfall. That final blood-soaked shimmy is one of the best comeback spots ever and then the DQ finish is great. Bradshaw has almost killed this man legit and he won't stay down, so he tries to pull one of Eddie's tricks with the steel chair bait and switch, but it backfires and Eddie smashes him with the belt, clearly not caring about winning or losing, not that he ever really did. Then there's the post-match beatdown, which is about as satisfying as you could ask for if you thought the actual finish was deflating.
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Post by puroraisedme on May 6, 2023 7:50:14 GMT -5
This match is incredible. Eddie gives a god damner of a performance and JBL put his big boy pants on that day. That bladejob and the ludicrous amount of blood Eddie spilled that day is genuinely horrifying, which makes his performance in this match that much better. He refuses to give up and keeps fighting despite losing loads of blood. I'm REALLY high on this match, I think this is the second best WWE match ever behind Brock/Cena ER 2012.
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Post by puropotsy on Jun 29, 2023 9:17:12 GMT -5
This was a really good to great WWE Title match that became epic once the blood came into play. Seeing Eddie get a major world title defense is magical. JBL really held up his end too and they had great chemistry. A great hate-filled match.
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Post by lemming on Nov 26, 2023 10:02:59 GMT -5
I voted this #30 this year.
Legendary, transcendent performance by Eddie. His blood-soaked, shimmying, hulk-up is one of the best moments in wrestling history, absolutely.
Right out of the blocks he just wants to kill the racist, arrogant bully JBL stone dead. Nothing fancy or cute, just launching straight at him with punches to the face and then slamming him face-first onto the apron and into the ring posts. It feels more like something out of a hate-filled lucha apuestas than a WWE title match. Incredible, fiery start that establishes that Eddie is not particularly interested in winning the match (unlike the weaselly JBL who will do so by any means), he just wants to get revenge for what JBL has done to his Mum, and for all the vile trash he has talked. When Bradshaw tries to bail on the match like a coward, Eddie won't let him and drags him back to the ring.
JBL obviously isn't the worker Eddie is but he's mostly good here, and it's a very giving performance (like the best heel performances almost always are) - he doesn't try and make himself look tough or cool or go blow-for-blow with Eddie - he bumps, is willing to stooge and acts just like a bully who's bitten off more than they can chew. But when he gets openings (by a mixture of luck and his opponent's impetuousness) he does maximise his size advantage to show that he is a threat - catching Eddie on a plancha to hit a fallaway slam, his clothesline looked brutal, even his controversial side headlock I thought looked great, sinking it in tight and forcing all his weight onto Eddie making it look legit.
But yeah, the real heart of this is in Eddie's defiant, bloody, comeback down the stretch (plus the righteous, post-match beat down). An absolutely thrilling passage of wrestling. One of the greats operating at their very peak.
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Post by puroraisedme on Jan 21, 2024 6:53:56 GMT -5
I decided to rewatch this and goddamnit this really is a #1 contender for me. It's an unbelievably tremendous match with the single greatest individual performance ever in wrestling from Eddie Guerrero.
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