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Post by Cap on Dec 8, 2017 19:15:42 GMT -5
Eddie Guerrero vs John Bradshaw Layfield (WWE Championship - WWE - 5/16/2004)
I have no doubt that I will be the high vote on this because I know a lot of people don't have a super high opinion of it. Some see it as an all time Blade job and that is about it. Like every match I am nominating, I am not really going to get into a full review here, but I do want to make a little bit of my case. Basically I think there are three main reasons this match is an absolute all time classic.
1) It is - in my mind - the best individual performance I have ever seen from Eddie. JBL has his working boots on (sans a small section in the middle where he seems hell bent on dragging it down - though I think that actually plays into its greatness ultimately), but Eddie is absolutely increadible from curtain to curtain. His facial expressions, his selling, his overcoming the massive blood loss... its all incredible.
2) This blurs the lines in a way that could speak to anyone invested in Eddie (or anyone who was sort of beloved by hardcore fans). Eddie was finally champ and he was working so hard to be the best champ possible. He was out there fighting himself as much as anyone, which is why we got that insane blade job and why we got him working through it.
3) Related, this match really captures a lot of class and racial dynamics in a way that I am not sure many matches do. It is worked into the psychology of the match. JBL doing anything he can to keep Eddie down (using his strength, mind games, exploiting his family, cheating). When it becomes clear he can't do it, Eddie winning would have been satisfying, but we all got that he could have beat JBL. They went to the next level by letting Eddie get JBL back. Its a visceral story that just really resonated with me. JBL was born to play this part and Eddie's star shone brightest here.
I will try to explain this more clearly at some point in this process, but I will put it this way. This is my favorite Eddie match and one of my top 3 WWE matches of all time. It is a lock on my list.
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Post by elliott on Dec 8, 2017 19:32:36 GMT -5
Seconded. Now we're talking. This match is fucking awesome. Yeah, I'm someone who loves blood and brawling. But I'm also a big fan of Big vs Little in wrestling and I thought that element was really well done in addition to all the brawling and the gruesome blade job and made this a fuller match with a good grounding in traditional psychology while taking a non-traditional approach to structure. This rules and is one of the few WWE matches with a real shot to make my list.
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Post by thepumalives on Jan 5, 2018 16:37:25 GMT -5
Going into this project, this match is one of my top two of all time. Eddie and JBL played their parts perfect; Eddie was the pissed off king defending his realm, and JBL was the big bully who finally met someone who would fight back. This was just an all out war between two men, and Eddie covered in blood and frog splashing JBL was the perfect ending.
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Post by Cap on Jan 6, 2018 11:10:55 GMT -5
top 2? Maybe I wont be the high vote. I will have it really high though. I hope this gets some more exploration from others.
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Post by sams on Jan 7, 2018 7:39:50 GMT -5
Going in to this process I also have it in my top 2. However I'm resigned to the fact this most probably will drop over time. I'm certain this is a lock for my top 20 and possibly for my top 10. I can't argue that this match would have been as good without the copious amounts of blood, but unlike most bloodbaths, it serves to augment and elevate what they already had in place. Plus, Eddie busting out the shimmy despite the blood loss is up their with Austin's WM13 as the greatest mid-match WWE moment of all time.
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Post by Cap on Jan 7, 2018 12:20:51 GMT -5
Ohh... Eddie doing his dance covered in blood is a moment that gives me chills. Thats all time incredible.
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Post by fxnj on Jun 26, 2018 3:54:14 GMT -5
This was always my pick for best match in WWE history, at least up until that Wrestlemania theater version of Lesnar/Reigns came out and woke me up to how incredible that match was. I've watched this so many times and I've always feared it might not hold up, but I'm always left satisfied by the end. The classic JBL heel promo, Eddie's acting performance, and the monster blade job are things that just never old. The beginning from JBL's racist promo to Eddie's entrance and match preparation is really well done. The bass for Eddie's theme serves as this primal war drum while he stares deep into JBL's soul. He looks like he truly wants to kill JBL, while JBL comes across as he no idea what he's truly getting himself into until he's already getting his ass beat. Always thought it was a cool detail that Eddie sends JBL across the Spanish announce table, rather than the English one. There's some nice shit talking in the ring. I will admit I have a hard time getting as into as like to be, as worked punches in a blood feud just don't do for me unless it's Lawler-tier stuff. Really more my problem as I've probably just seen way too many Hansen and Kawada matches. On that note, I actually found JBL's control segment more compelling even if might not have been as well "worked" as Eddie's. Watching a big dude throw around a smaller guy is always a winning formula. Always loved him catching Eddie's outside cross-body and throwing him. Even dug the side headlock that he used to control Eddie on the ground. A move like that might not sound like much, but I can say from experience that it's really no joke when you've got a much larger guy doing and you're already kind of winded. Some neat hope spots for Eddie that came at just the right moment, even if I'm not so into Eddie's inner-forearm punches. I also really into the bearhug. Some great commentary that explained JBL was targeting Eddie's body with it rather than his back to try to wear him down with it. Really dig Eddie doing the Three Amigos just a little slower than usual to sell the wear of the match. The ref bump is actually a really cool spot than I gave it credit for before. You had these jaded smarks in the front row with dumb signs like "schmoz" and "dud," so as soon as it happened they immediately groaned and looked at the ramp expecting some clusterfuck bullshit finish. Instead, it serves as a segue to the set-up for Eddie's legendary blade job. I've really got to give them credit for how smart they were getting there. JBL is getting his ass beat until he gets thrown over an announce table and in the scramble lands a hard chair shot to even the odds. This is when the match really kicks into high gear. DQ finish be damned, even if its not quite the best WWE match it almost definitely has the best WWE finish run ever. JBL fittingly ramps up the cockiness with this huge opportunity just falling in his slap, and some excellent near falls. Especially like him pulling out the sleeper. Some excellent near falls from JBL Eddie is incredible balancing burning vengeance with groggy vulnerability, portraying a man hell bent on revenge even whilst his body is slowly shutting down from blood loss. So many amazing visuals as the blood endlessly drips out of his forehead. Great quote from Cole when he says something to the effect of "The ring looks a canvas... Excepts it's not covered in paint but blood!" The DQ finish might be the most fitting ever pulled off. For this match, it was truly about maiming the other guy. Thus, when Eddie got the chance to murder JBL with that 8 pounds of gold he'd worked so hard to get and which JBL was ruthlessly trying to steal away from him, he damn sure took it. I had mentioned before that the section after Eddie gets busted open was filled amazing visuals, but perhaps the most amazing of all happened immediately after the match ended, as an exhausted and bloodied Eddie rises up from the mat to pounce on a JBL that he'd just downed him with the belt I'm not sure why this image didn't pop out to me like this on prior viewings, but when watching it this time I immediately paused on this part and spent a full minute just staring at Eddie's face here. Blood still dripping onto his canvas, every part of his face is drenched except those beautiful eyes. He resembles a wounded dog ready to pounce on an attacker. It's a point where the brutality of the match has collapsed the divide between man and beast, and all that's left is for him to unleash his animal instincts on the rich fucker who wronged him and his family. After, mounting JBL and raining down some wearied punches, we get to what was until viewing my favorite part of the match. Eddie forces his way to the top rope and, with a face fully covered in crimson, pounds his chest like a silver back before unleashing a hell of a frog splash on a JBL who dared to lay down in the ring that Eddie painted red. JBL tries to escape, but Eddie seemingly gets a second wind as he chases after JBL until he has to get pulled off by a crew of agents ironically consisting of his WCW contemporaries in Finlay, Arn Anderson, and Dean Malenko. ****1/2
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Post by Cap on Aug 6, 2018 20:18:16 GMT -5
From my rewatch write up on 7/16/2018 Eddie Guerrero vs John Bradshaw Layfield (WWE Title – 5/16/2004) Current Rank: 13 Trending: Even I once thought I would be the high vote on this. That was until someone said they were considering it for their #1 spot. I am not sure I have ever seriously considered it quite that high, but if this were a list of favorite matches this might be hard to dethrone. To me, Eddie’s performance here might be the single greatest performance in wrestling history. I love everything about this. It is far greater than the sum of its parts. This match blurs boundaries, it taps into deeply important social issues and does so in a way that is at the same time both very “pro wrestling” and respectable. It is visceral and intense. This match is very WWE but it is also gritty. It is grand but doesn’t skimp on the work. It doesn’t hurt that it features one of my absolute favorite wrestlers and most brutal blade jobs ever. While it might creep up my list a touch based on being a personal favorite, I have watched this match countless times and I always come away thinking it is legitimately great. This could move up or down just a touch, depending on how other things grab me, but I suspect this winds up around the bottom of the top 10 to the top 15 when its all said and done. Full post can be found here: gweproject.freeforums.net/thread/657/caps-watching-project-reports#ixzz5NS1EzdKr
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Post by superstarsleeze on Dec 23, 2018 21:09:05 GMT -5
A classic bloodletting that will absolutely make my list. I see this more in the back half of my list, but it is definitely one of the best matches in WWE history.
WWE Champion Eddie Guerrero vs John Bradshaw Layfield - Judgment Day 2004
Well that's gotta be an 11 on the Muta Scale, it is one bloodier. It is a murder scene. If you think this match is just about buckets of blood, you would be dead wrong. A great throwback match to the hate-filled brawls that were the norm in 1980s US Wrestling. For me, this match represents where the divisions in wrestling fandom started. Scott Keith posted a lukewarm at best review of this match and was rightfully spit-roasted. Scott Keith had spent years espousing the virtues of 90s workrate and believed in those idols. He saw someone like JBL and dismissed him out of hand. I believe he went in with a star rating before he saw the match. Another example was an insane low ball rating of Brock vs Taker 2002 Hell In A Cell, three stars. It would be years again before I found those wrestling fans that saw great wrestling comes in all shapes and colors here at Pro Wrestling Only. Yes, workrate fans continue to dominate the internet, but I am so glad to found a place where brawling, traditional championship wrestling and shoot style are still revered.
Eddie is red hot at Bradshaw after Bradshaw cuts a Donald Trump promo to huge heel heat. Can we go back to that America? Also according to the announcers, Bradshaw caused Eddie's mom to have a heart attack, but it is ok because Bradshaw is going to have her employed as his maid. What I love about this match is that is not a glorified weapons match that stands in for brawling. Today so many "brawls" is just an excuse to hit each other with weapons. Here Eddie just wants to keep punching JBL right in the face with a good 'ol fashion closed fist, throw him into some hard, metal objects and choke him with a cord. It is an asskicking that is personal. I love that JBL tries to leave it really puts over how major this asskicking is. Typically, you see a heel champion do that not a heel challenger. He rather foresake the championship than get beat up more now that's an asskicking. I thought the transitions were great. Eddie is concerned about the count and it breaks his focus and he ends up eating the steel steps. I thought Bradshaw was great in control of the match. He used his size advantage to control and dominate Eddie. Anyone who says JBL was slow or some other bullshit watch him run the ropes or feed those armdrag bumps. He was bumping huge for anyone but especially for his size. Eddie gets a plancha, but eats JBL's fallaway slam on the outside. The playing field is leveled. You feel that who over wins the next slugfest will be poised to win the match. Eddie is rocking JBL with chops, but JBL executes a desperation back body drop on Eddie who lands on the table. I like that move as a transition as JBL uses Eddie's own momentum to garner control of the match. It feels more like the babyface lost control of the match than the heel won control. You want an aggressive babyface and a reactionary heel. Bradshaw applies a bearhug to chagrin of workrate fans. Eddie begins his big comeback. He is just so damn charismatic. He runs over the ref by accident and here we go...Eddie throws JBL over the announce table and he approaches JBL to meter out more punishment...JBL CRACKS him with a steel chair. Blood is quite literally squirting out of Eddie's head. The blood was flowing for the next ten minutes. In my estimation, the most grizzly bladejob I have seen. He was wearing the literal crimson mask. The finish run is spectacular. One of the best of all time. JBL CRUSHES EDDIE WITH A CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL! THEN HE THROWS HIM DOWN WITH A POWERBOMB! Both moves looked killer. Eddie's shimmy shaking with all that blood was so electric. I love how Eddie gets all his receipts in and then some. Yes he loses by DQ, but he draws blood from the championship belt, he cracks JBL in the head with the steel chair and then the cherry on top is the chest beating, blood-soaked Frogsplash. Thats how you put a babyface over. Eddie looked like a world-beating asskicker. How the hell would you not want to root for him? JBL did a great job selling all this cowering and crawling while Eddie was relentless in seeking revenge. A classic hate-filled brawl with great babyface/heel dynamics that is taken to the next level by insane, copious amounts of blood that make it instantly memorable. ****3/4
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Post by Cap on Aug 18, 2020 6:38:00 GMT -5
From my rewatch project on 8/17 Eddie Guerrero vs John Bradshaw Layfield (WWE Title – 5/16/2004) Current Rank: 9 Trending: Even I have talked this match to death because I understand I am abnormally high on this. I’ll try not to repeat myself too much. The fact of the matter is, this match shouldn’t work for me. It features a lot of things I generally don’t like: screwy finishes, ref bumps, JBL laying in chin locks. Despite all this though, every single time I watch this match I am reminded why this is my pick for single greatest performance in wrestling history. Yes… it’s the blood, but it isn’t just the blood. Eddie absolutely masterful here and this genuinely captures what WWE does best (and inadvertently why its infuriating when they fail to get me invested). They build a larger than life fight that feels like the stakes are enormous. By the end of this match I am always so genuinely invested in every strike Eddie gets in. It is truly accomplished physical storytelling that crescendos with Eddie – covered in blood – doing his little shimmy before firing off on JBL. If I added up the elements and picked them apart it would be a good not great match, but this match is so much more than the sum of its parts. It is everything I want in my big time pro wrestling: a funhouse mirror reflection of the world that hooks me, tells me a story, gives me a payoff, and makes me want to revisit because its timeless. I doubt this moves up much, but it remains a lock in this tier. Full Post: gweproject.freeforums.net/post/8466
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Post by elliott on Feb 20, 2021 12:47:31 GMT -5
Cross posting from the Cena/JBL thread
What a terrible opinion re: JBL! Definitely agree with you here.
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Post by Cap on Feb 20, 2021 12:54:38 GMT -5
Yeah.... I think this is the greatest WWE match ever and one of the top 10 matches of all time. On a logical level, I can follow someone's argument against this match. On an emotional/fan level, I can't wrap my head around it haha. That is sort of how I feel about all wrestling I like though haha.
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Post by elliott on Feb 20, 2021 12:58:19 GMT -5
So there are people that argue basically that Larger heel slows down firey smaller babyface is bad? Was it Kurt Angle?
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Post by nintendologic on Feb 20, 2021 14:02:19 GMT -5
It's been a good while since I've watched this match, but my view has always been that it was a great 10-to-15 minute match that suffers greatly by being stretched out to 23 minutes. It wasn't just the wear-down holds but also all the laying around after the ref bumps. I'm fine in principle with a larger heel trying to smother a smaller babyface, but I didn't find JBL's work in that regard particularly compelling. Also, my recollection is that he ground the match to a halt after busting Eddie open with a chair, which caused it to fall flat for me. One of my favorite things about the Cena match is the way JBL worked his cut with kicks and stomps. I would have like to have seen more of that here as opposed to bearhugs. Again, though, my memory might be failing me. I'll try to revisit it with an open mind and see what I think.
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Post by elliott on Feb 20, 2021 14:24:25 GMT -5
YOu should definitely rewatch it. You're misremembering some things. For example, the bearhug comes before the bladejob.
After Eddy is busted open JBL's offensive follow up is punches and smashing the ring steps into Eddy's head. He also showed Eddy's bloody face to the camera and punched him in the face. Then JBL hits one of his best lariats ever. New ref runs out for a near fall then another ref bump. 2 ref bumps is annoying yes but its WWE. They did ref bumps. And these are handled pretty well. JBL follows up his best ever lariat with his best ever powerbomb right in front of the original knocked out ref who wakes up in time for an immediate count after the powerbomb but Eddy kicks out at the last second for an unbeliveable nearfall. Honestly they could have ended the match right there after Eddy's blade job, the lariat and powerbomb and no one would have felt ripped off. He gets another big nearfall off the same powerbomb it was so good.
Then JBL goes to the sleeper. Maybe that's grinding the match to a halt but bigger guy puts a sleeper onto an insanely bloody smaller guy is smart psychology. You can say it "grinds the match to a halt" I will say it lasted literally 20 seconds from the application of the sleeper to Eddy's reversal. Which then started the transition to Eddy's comeback and work to the finish.
I don't have a problem with them laying around because they're selling that theve been in a grueling match.
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