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Post by Cap on Dec 8, 2017 19:21:37 GMT -5
Kenta Kobashi vs Samoa Joe (ROH - 10/1/2005)
I can't think of a match that had this much hype and lived it up to it like this one did. I loved it. The first time I watched it I was of course taken by the brutlaity of the chops, but since I have really noticed that this is a properly good match. It is sort of a hybrid between 90s AJPW, 2000s NOAH, and 2000s ROH. Joe really showed here that he belongs in the ring with the absolute best in the world and Kobashi showed just how big-time he is. I'd be shocked if this didn't make my list.
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Post by elliott on Dec 8, 2017 19:30:19 GMT -5
Seconded. This was a weird viewing experience for me. I don't really like either of these guys and was fully expecting to hate it when I first saw it. And then I watched it and was really really liking it. At some point it all fell apart for me personally, but I was surprised by how good it came across at first.
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Post by smash1992 on Jan 4, 2018 11:50:17 GMT -5
Third
Remains second to none in producing a FEELING on that scale for me. The atmosphere radiates even off a DVD which is so hard to do. Sure, it was a match designed as tribute to Kobashi but no US wrestler could represent his former rivals like Joe. Will probably get more thoughts together at a later date but absolutely going to make my list. That last sentence didn't really count towards through so want to say how big them chops were.
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Post by bossrock on Jan 18, 2018 10:14:32 GMT -5
I'm actually not sure if this match makes my list. Definitely a great match and a super-fun watch, but it gets a little to "exhibition-y" for me at times if that makes sense. It may seem ironic as NOAH-era Kobashi is my avatar and the guy is probably my favorite wrestler of all-time, but this match seems to be the epitome of "Chopbashi". That being said, this is still a really good, hard-hitting match and one of the most fun matches you'll see. Just not sure it's one of the 100 greatest ever.
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Post by Cap on Jan 18, 2018 11:20:10 GMT -5
I'm actually not sure if this match makes my list. Definitely a great match and a super-fun watch, but it gets a little to "exhibition-y" for me at times if that makes sense. It may seem ironic as NOAH-era Kobashi is my avatar and the guy is probably my favorite wrestler of all-time, but this match seems to be the epitome of "Chopbashi". That being said, this is still a really good, hard-hitting match and one of the most fun matches you'll see. Just not sure it's one of the 100 greatest ever. I kinda felt that way the first time I watched and and that was my take for years. I rewatched it a few years ago and thought there was more too it than I remembered. Not saying "go back and watch this" but personally I was pleasently surprised. I mean, its choppy... its def. choppy... but because I thought of it as choppy I found a lot more nuance there when I returned to it.
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Post by superstarsleeze on Nov 17, 2019 20:43:37 GMT -5
This match is just MARK OUT CITY! Kobashi in an ROH ring just immediately gives me goosebumps. This match happened right before I got into Youtube. In 2006, I really discovered Youtube and was gobbling up willy nilly so I dont think at the time I would have really appreciated this match, but now I can really feel it.
Kenta Kobashi vs Samoa Joe - ROH 10/1/05
I wish you could bottle the electricity and emotion in the building for this match. Samoa Joe at his peak wrestling his idol. Kenta Kobashi just after his tremendous, historic heavyweight championship reign wrestling in America for the first time. Ring Of Honor, which was basically a puroresu promotion in America, achieving its pinnacle by having the biggest Puroresu star in American's eyes against their biggest star. Then what I believe could be the greatest crowd of all time just marking out each every and every second. What a tremendous package! They could have gone out and read the fucking phone book and we would have all marked out! What a dream match! The match I wish the most that I got to see live. I have never watched this match until right now and I was marking out just like everybody else. I don't think this is *****. I am not trying to be a Debbie-Downer, but it is a Greatest Hits of All Japan done in America. That's exactly what it was supposed to be! I am grinning like a Cheshire Cat throughout the whole thing. Watching Samoa Joe do Kawada Kicks and Kobashi's response was just magic. The look on Kobashi's face throughout the match as he scanned the arena. I don't think he could believe he was so fucking over. I wonder if he was thinking "Baba should have had touring over here!". Kobashi was at his Kobashi The Destroyer asskicking best turning Samoa Joe's chest purple. The main criticism I hear of this match is that it is Chopbashi. It is definitely Chopbashi. He was coming off the big Dome match with Sasaki and it is wrestled very much in that vein. It works in this setting because the match truly is a dream match. When you are watching it, you actually feel like you are dreaming. Like Kobashi in a ring that says ROH and surrounded by a bunch of Northeast Maniacs! That surrealness plays into the larger than life effect. Chopbashi is larger than life. Another reviewer said this match is half about Joe eating Kobashi's spots. We were all marking out of the Half Nelson and Sleeper Suplexes! That was incredible! I think Joe definitely looked credible against Kobashi. Another reviewer said Joe is basically a midcarder in NOAH, which was true but in America he was top dog and Kobashi let him do top dog things. The dive elbow through ropes ala Misawa gave Joe the advantage at the beginning. I loved the running facewash and how Kobashi countered it. That was a great bump by Joe into crowd off the chop! It was a very selfless performance by Joe. Joe's powerbomb into an array of submissions came off really great because of how well Kobashi was struggling. That was probably the best version I have seen of that sequence because Joe was properly reacting to Kobashi getting close to the ropes. When it came time, Kobashi DESTROYED Joe and I am sure Joe was marking out like the rest of us as Kobashi was chopping his chest purple! BURNING LARIAT! They did not overstay their welcome. The match was just one extended Mark Out Sequence and it was glorious! ****1/2
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Post by tetsujin on Apr 19, 2021 6:12:53 GMT -5
Just watched this with japanese commentary and edition, boy is this match legendary. I think "instant classic" is OD at this point, but this match sure was an instant classic, literally. Kobashi knew how to work maximalist without actually being a maximalist wrestler anymore, Joe gave it all, the crowd is only at the level of few other matches in history (as we all know)... Everything worked perfectly to create one of the biggest experiences a wrestling fan could ever have. Clear top 25 contender for me.
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Post by puropotsy on Jun 28, 2023 13:06:43 GMT -5
Watching this, I thought it was a well-renowned classic that didn’t hold up. Then the last third or so of the match started when they did the camera angle switch when Kobashi chopped a charging Joe. From there they engaged in what some might call excessiveness but it whipped the crowd into a frenzy. This opened up all possibilities for dream matches to follow which makes it important but the fact that they gave each other so much and worked the crowd so well makes the work hold up.
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Post by [Darren] on Jun 28, 2023 13:14:43 GMT -5
If there was ever an “I just don’t get it” match, it’s this one.
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Post by elliott on Jun 28, 2023 13:39:31 GMT -5
If there was ever an “I just don’t get it” match, it’s this one. Preach it
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Post by KB8 on Jun 28, 2023 13:50:19 GMT -5
I actually thought this was pretty fun the last time I saw it. I mean it's basically a greatest hits match and some of the All Japan call-backs are kind of on the nose, but I went into the thing expecting to hate it (I didn't like it much whenever I first saw it) so my expectations were low. I would never consider voting for it, but for what it is I think it's fine. And hearing a crowd be so ridiculously invested in and excited about what they're watching is cool. The chanting somehow didn't feel obnoxious and when they did the "this is awesome" bit in the first couple minutes it came across as them being completely and legitimately buzzed about seeing something like that. They were lost in the moment. It deserves points for eliciting maybe the only not-terrible chant like that in history.
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Post by [Darren] on Jun 28, 2023 14:32:49 GMT -5
I certainly appreciate all of those points and for that I love how excited certain folks get for it.
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Post by Cap on Jun 28, 2023 16:48:43 GMT -5
I always expect to come down on this match a bit and every time I'm all in. I don't know if it hits the nostalgia bone just right or if it is really just the best version of - as KB8 put it - a greatest hits match. I always say that no match has ever lived up to they hype like this match. It benefits from that hype, but even approaching expectations keeps it among my greats.
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Post by [Darren] on Jun 28, 2023 16:51:18 GMT -5
I think my problem is that I was already entrenched in ROH at the time but this was also my introduction to Kobashi. So my original association is kinda being an outsider, not understanding who I’m seeing.
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Post by fxnj on Jun 28, 2023 22:00:21 GMT -5
It’s been a while since I saw this, so I couldn’t point to any specifics, but I remember this being a bit more than a greatest hits match. It was more like a pseudo-touring champ with the respected local guy meeting a true world class guy and getting outclassed but putting up a hell of a fight in the process.
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