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Post by elliott on Dec 3, 2017 17:22:41 GMT -5
Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW – 7/29/1993) This will be my highest ranked All Japan match. Top 10 overall contender that would be a top 5 lock if this was a favorite matches ever list. This has fantastic storytelling, pitch perfect selling, a super hot crowd, maybe the simplest yet most memorable transition I’ve ever seen, and certainly one of the most memorable finishes of all time.
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Post by Cap on Dec 3, 2017 21:32:20 GMT -5
Second
Love love love love love this match. I know a lot of people are more fond of the Hansen/Kawada match and I see why. It has a lot of strengths and I MIGHT like it better (that will be a tough call for me), but this match has an ethos to it that might be personal for me, but I don't think it can be reduced to that. These are two of my top five favorite wrestlers every at their absolute best. Beyond that though. This has a big fight feel. It is so hard hitting, so intense, and has such urgency. The ending of this is lights out great. It is the type of match that makes me mark out once or twice out loud, no matter how many times I have watched it. Top 25 lock probably, top 10 contender.
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Post by Grimmas on Jan 4, 2018 23:20:43 GMT -5
I have it listed as July 29th, is that the same match and I have the wrong date?
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Post by elliott on Jan 4, 2018 23:33:28 GMT -5
I have it listed as July 29th, is that the same match and I have the wrong date? I blew it. Its the same match. I fixed it. Good catch.
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Post by Grimmas on Jan 4, 2018 23:40:28 GMT -5
I have it listed as July 29th, is that the same match and I have the wrong date? I blew it. Its the same match. I fixed it. Good catch. Then this needs to be nominated because it has the greatest lariat finish ever. Kobashi is almost crying in this match trying not to get beat by the monster and Hansen is like Godzilla and treats Kobashi like he's some small building he's stomping. Love it.
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Post by tetsujin on Jan 5, 2018 8:41:40 GMT -5
I blew it. Its the same match. I fixed it. Good catch. Then this needs to be nominated because it has the greatest lariat finish ever. Kobashi is almost crying in this match trying not to get beat by the monster and Hansen is like Godzilla and treats Kobashi like he's some small building he's stomping. Love it. Poor Hansen/Gordy vs Tenryu/Kawada But yeah, this is a tremendous match. For many years this has been the best match I've never give 5*, so if nothing changes I know it's going to be on my list, but It's a matter of where. The only thing I don't like about this match is the thing everyone loves about this match: the finish! They've been beating the shit out of each other for so long, selling it wonderfuly, that the no-sell strikes in the corner always seemed to me like a lack of connection between the whole match and the ending. Vicious Western Lariat, though.
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Post by bossrock on Jan 5, 2018 15:37:21 GMT -5
Hot take, but this might not even be my favorite of their series. I think I preferred the story and escalation of the '91 match more, but this was still awesome. Great story of Kobashi getting closer and closer to overcoming his greatest nemesis of the early 90's by completely overwhelming him at the beginning only for Hansen's experience to take over. And just when it looks like Kobashi might pull it off, Hansen literally sends his dreams crashing and burning.
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Post by stunninggrover on Apr 24, 2018 0:28:42 GMT -5
1993-07-29 Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi (AJPW @ Nippon Budokan in Tokyo, Japan) Memorable match. Great performance by both. Great selling. Stiff offense. Kobashi tried his best to beat Hansen. He had never been able to beat Hansen and the crowd was really into Kobashi’s quest to beat Hansen. It is likely that this match will be in my top 100.
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Post by superstarsleeze on Jun 9, 2020 20:07:13 GMT -5
I dont think Hansen and Kobashi ever had a bad match together. Their series is almost as prolific as Flair vs Steamboat. Like Flair & Steamboat, they were made for each because they were opposites. Hansen was the obnoxious, foreign, veteran bully doing "Bull in the China Shop" routine while Kobashi was the plucky, native, young upstart whose passion and emotion flows from every pore. This is their most famous match. I love the structure. Kobashi bumrushing Hansen trying desperately to win within the first 10 minutes with Hansen getting very little offense in and then BANG the boot in the corner and the POWERBOMB on the floor and it is a whole different ball game. It is interesting for the first time I just watched the '93 Carnival match and what is weird is that instead of enhancing this match it actually hurt it. I thought the Carnival match had more struggle and Hansen really made Kobashi earn his offense. This Match had the bigger moments. Both will make my Top 100 and most likely be in the top half.
Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 7/29/93
Greatest match ever? That's the million dollar question, aint it? I certainly seem to think so back in 2013. I voted Flair vs Morton in the cage as my greatest match ever because I was only voting based on matches that I have done full reviews on and I hadnt done my All Japan rewatch yet. So here we are. Is this the Greatest Match Ever?
The difference between now and 2013 is I have seen pretty much every Hansen vs Kobashi match up to this one. I thought the '91 match and the '93 Carnival match from just a few months prior to this are also classics and contenders for a Top 100 match. The key is the dynamic. It is 100% centered around the Kobashi victory. Kobashi does not need revenge. He does not need to hurt him. He just needs to pin him or submit. It is so pure. Kobashi is such a pure and human pro wrestler. Anyone from any time period and any culture will understand Kobashi because he is the epitome of the human condition: the emotion, fire, desire, passion, agony, disappointment, dedication, willpower, distraught everything all wrapped up in one superball of human energy. Then you have Stan Hansen who is not just a man. This is a Grizzly Bear. a Killer Whale, and a Bull IN A China Shop, all mixed into one human. There's no humanity to Stan Hansen. He's an Animal, a Beast. When you wrestle Stan Hansen it is not Man vs. Man, it is Man vs Nature. Kobashi had proven he could survive in previous encounters but could he ever conquer Hansen?
Now that I've seen the '93 Carnival match this really is an extension of that match. There are some differences but for the most part they follow the same layout of Kobashi dominating the first 10 minutes or so. Big transition. Competitive finish run and a Massive Lariat finish. So lets breakdown the differences.
This match Kobashi is more focused on attacking the head of Stan Hansen as opposed to the arm in the previous match. I like how this is set up. Hansen is stomping a young lion and Kobashi rushes over takes advantage and kicks him in the head. This immediately rings Hansen's bell and it is clearly from Hansen's selling he is at an immediate disadvantage. Kobashi cements this with a DDT on the outside. There are a lot of DDTs and legdrops to the head in his match. Hansen just a couple bearpaw swings but Kobashi is immediately overwhelming him with firepower. There were a lot of chops, BIG TIME Lariats, and blow to the head from Kobashi. I did like Kobashi using the Cowboy Kick to get back at Hansen. This was an all-out offensive assault from Kobashi. It was a full court press where he never let up on Hansen. Much like the Carny match, it was a low-risk offense targeting setup with facelocks, combine that with dogged determination Kobashi it just overwhelmed Hansen. Just as mentioned in the '93 Carny match, the mystique of Hansen is obliterated in this match. Kobashi has taken him to task and Hansen is left a wounded Grizzly. Now a wounded Grizzly is a dangerous grizzly, but he is not the hellraising Bull In The China Shop we are used to.
Then comes the moment that has been burned me in my mind since I have first watched this match some 15 years ago. Hansen is slumped down in the corner battered and bruise. Kobashi comes charging in for the kill and Hansen just gets a straight boot up and CLOBBERS Kobashi in the face. Kobashi just crumples into a heap with the perfect glassy eye sell and I love how he just flops out of the ring. Just like the entire complexion of the match changes. Hansen dives onto Kobashi from the apron, then it is the Super Famous Powerbomb onto the concrete, another spot etched in my memory and then the elbow drop off the apron. Hansen was using his body weight and gravity do the work against Kobashi. Hansen is not able to activate Hellraising, Chaos mode, but he is 100% in command and this creates that dynamic we love. Kobashi the underdog taking on the Force of Nature. Can the human spirit overcome?
They do a great job down the stretch duking it out for control. They beat the dog shit out of each other but those last 5 minutes or so are just perfect. Hansen just back suplexed Kobashi and he tugs on the elbow pad. I love this. I love when little things like this elicit such a big crowd response. Kobashi uses a drop toehold to evade and immediately leg drops the back of the head. It was so urgent. It was so electric. Then comes the barrage of leg drops because this is here chance. He was getting the shit beat out of him and now he is not going to let go. He just keeps crashing down with leg drops, climaxing with one from the top rope. 1-2-NO! Awesome nearfall. Then we gets the classic Fist Pump->Moonsault->Connects! 1-2-NO! HUGE NUCLEAR NEARFALL! Kobashi goes full Ricky Steamboat just going for a ton of quick pinning combinations desperately trying to win. At this point in his career, it was moonsault or bust, so you can really feel his anxiety and fear. He shot his best shot and Hansen still kicked out. Like the what the fuck can he do? What I love about Kobashi is that he doesnt give up. He just keeps trying. He just keeps throwing shit at Hansen. It maybe a basic as fuck schoolboy rollup but goddamnit that's all he has got. Kobashi realizes he can try to hit the Moonsault again as a way to win the match. After all if you at first dont succeed, try, try again.
This leads to the iconic finish, where Hansen blasts Kobashi off the top rope with one wild swing of his bear paw and the underdog is vanquished once again, but his flame is not extinguished. He got closer than ever before.
Is this the Greatest Match Ever? No. It is for a weird reason. We all advocate for watching more wrestling to give us context and a flesh out the narrative of a match, but for the first time, this may have backfired. I think the '93 Carny match exposed some flaws in this match that I had never seen. I think the opening ten minutes of this match are too easy for Kobashi. I think Hansen is much more active in playing defense in the Carny match and making Kobashi earn his offense. In this match, Hansen is content playing ragdoll. I think the Carny match having arm psychology allowed for a more focused Kobashi offensive effort. Now what the Carnival match lacked where big spots. The Foot in the Face in the Corner, The Powerbomb on the Floor, The Legdrop Sequence, The Moonsault and The Iconic Lariat finish are all very famous. In the Carny match Kobashi gets a shit ton of offense, but he does not get The Legdrop or Moonsault nearfalls which are nuclear. I think the Lariat finish off the top rope is one of the best finishes of all time. In fairness to the Carny match, the Lariat to Kobashi coming off the middle rope fit that match better. I think it comes down to do you prefer minimalism or maximalism. I am a Maxed out guy so I prefer this match to the Carny match slightly but I love well-done minimalism and that the Carny match exposed enough flaws in this match that I dont think either of these matches are the Greatest Match Ever. Both will finish in my Top 50 of all time for sure. I think if you take the first ten minutes of the Carny match and marry it with the last ten minutes of this match with some slight edits then you could say thats The Greatest Match Ever. It is ***** all the way but sometimes you gotta pick those nits.
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Post by bossrock on Aug 13, 2020 22:33:00 GMT -5
Just watched this today and plan on re-watching the Carny match. Just such great pro wrestling with one of the best narratives and some of the best displays of offense and selling. I can understand Sleaze's point about Hansen selling maybe a bit too much in the first half, but I think it makes Hansen's comeback and the desperation finishing stretch all the more effective. Was my number 10 last year and may very well finish in the top 10 again.
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Post by Cap on Aug 18, 2020 6:48:48 GMT -5
From my rewatch project on 7/18/2020 Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi (7/29/1993) Current Rank: 4 Trending: Even/Up? I was reading through the thread for this match recently. I found Superstarsleeze’s great review. He pointed out that there a are a lot of parallels between this and the 93 carnival match. I always saw the Carny match as almost a warm-up for this. You can see some of the parallels and how they try to work similar things into both matches. There are actually some things I like better about the Carny match. I much prefer the finish, which I think is the best finish ever. The finish of this gets a lot of hype, but if this ended with that deathshot lariat when Kobashi comes off the rope (the finish we got in the Carny match) I genuinely think it would be my #1. All that said though, that match, and watching all their available singles matches over the past 12-15 months, has led me to two conclusions. 1) This is the greatest rivalry of all time and it isn’t close (4 matches in my top 100, at least two others serious contenders) and 2) this match is better when you put it in that broader context, their truest masterpiece. This is where their dynamic feels like it exists in its purest form and their chemistry is at its best. Hansen’s desperation shots to keep Kobashi from getting too much momentum are just so perfectly timed. The way Kobashi lays things in and demands the most of Hansen is palpable. This is the perfect wresting pairing having about the closest thing to a perfect wrestling match that exists. It isn’t going down. Nothing I have watched to this point is going to jump it. It could creep up. It is a high bar to clear for the final three matches. Full Post: gweproject.freeforums.net/post/8466
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Post by andylfc on Oct 23, 2020 9:32:03 GMT -5
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Post by bossrock on Oct 23, 2020 17:24:53 GMT -5
Nice! This is awesome.
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Post by cactus on Nov 19, 2021 5:56:34 GMT -5
Kobashi isn't quite on Hansen's level and has to rush him if he wants to stand a chance. This is a great Kobashi fiery babyface performance and Hansen was great at showing vulnerability when he needed to. He's also deceivingly agile, he dives out of the way from a Kobashi aerial attack in a dramatic fashion. The finish is iconic and it's the most famous 90's AJPW finish not featuring a Tiger Driver '91. Perhaps I've hyped myself up too much, but I thought this was just a great match and I can comfortably name 10 other King's Road era matches that I prefer over this one. ★★★★¼
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Post by puropotsy on Jun 24, 2023 14:19:28 GMT -5
One of the most physical matches of all time, especially for a non-gimmick match. My second viewing and it is one of my favorite matches. Kobashi comes off as the guy about to be the best taking on the guy who is. The chops and slaps were incredible and the moves on the floor were badass as well. Kobashi seemed about ready to take it and Hansen had to pull out the big lariat and it was all over. A match to be studied.
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