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Post by elliott on Dec 10, 2017 0:29:22 GMT -5
Necro Butcher vs Samoa Joe (IWA Mid South - 6/11/2005)
Fantastic match. I'm not sure it will make my list but it is definitely one of my favorite indy matches. This is one of the most brutal ass kickings ever with an absolutely gruesome blade job. Great stuff.
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Post by Cap on Dec 10, 2017 9:01:33 GMT -5
The two power slams that come up short and end up driving Necro dome-first into the concrete are hard to watch for me, and I don't generally feel that way a bout a lot of the brutal stuff. This is absolutely bonkers. Its probably a long shot to make my list, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it slipped in and I wouldn't bat an eye if someone had it pretty high on their list.
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Post by smash1992 on Jan 4, 2018 11:39:49 GMT -5
Maybe the greatest indie match after. Up there for the greatest sub-10 minute match ever. Incredibly violent to a level you rarely see in wrestling. Necro was a great dream match wrestler and Samoa Joe was the perfect opponent for that.
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Post by fadu on Jan 4, 2018 17:23:00 GMT -5
I used to think this match wasn't anything special. I'm so glad I saw the light.
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Post by jr on Jan 4, 2018 18:30:07 GMT -5
We spent a lot of time in GWE discussing the difference between favorite and best. This is almost certainly my favorite match ever. I think how much you rate it in terms of best is determined almost totally by what you value. Really, this match presents interesting philosophical questions: Can the best match be under 10 minutes? Can it take place in front of a relatively small crowd? I think the more you can separate context and just look at work in a vacuum, the higher this match will rate for you. It's as much a spectacle as anything thats ever taken place at Wrestlemania.
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Post by Cap on Jan 4, 2018 21:21:38 GMT -5
I don't care about the crowd at all. I think the best match could be in front of 3 people. The time thing is a question. I like a lot of sub 10 minute matches I generally don't think that deters me from thinking of them as great, but it does create a hurdle that means the match has to be THAT much better.
I imagine this issue of favorite vs best is going to come up a good bit. I should probably just start a thread for it. For me, the difference is of less consequence than it is to some. I think if something is your favorite then you should probably think of it at least among the best because it hits and resonates for you. The important thing is understanding why, looking at what qualities make it work.
That isn't to say there is NO difference. Necro vs Super Dragon is one of my FAVORITE matches. HHH vs Bryan is one of my favorite matches. I have both of them at ****3/4 because I think both matches are great. I don't have them at ***** even though there are matches I do have at 5 that I don't like as much. But at that point it is nit-picky. once you are up in those top tiers its degrees of separation between things I am already calling great. If I love a match it is getting a high rating (or it is getting on my list or my nominations at least) from me because I think it is good wrestling.
Like I said, I am sure this will get beat to death actually, so I will save other examples and what not for later.
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Post by smash1992 on Jan 5, 2018 16:20:20 GMT -5
We spent a lot of time in GWE discussing the difference between favorite and best. This is almost certainly my favorite match ever. I think how much you rate it in terms of best is determined almost totally by what you value. Really, this match presents interesting philosophical questions: Can the best match be under 10 minutes? Can it take place in front of a relatively small crowd? I think the more you can separate context and just look at work in a vacuum, the higher this match will rate for you. It's as much a spectacle as anything thats ever taken place at Wrestlemania. Going to tackle the two questions. 1. Can the best match be under 10 minutes?Absolutely, no questions asked. Great matches are not determined by length but by their content. 2. Can it take place in front of a relatively small crowd?This question concerns me to a HIGH degree on the macro level. Size of the crowd shouldn't be a part of the criteria and if it for you I have trouble with your entire basis of what makes a wrestling match great. |
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Post by bossrock on Jan 6, 2018 14:42:30 GMT -5
Not sure if it will make my list, but this is an amazing sprint. I answer with a wholehearted YES that the best match can be any amount of time and in front of any crowd. Sometimes you need 30 minutes to tell the right story and sometimes, like in this case, you need just 10. It all depends on the story being told.
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Post by brockobama on Jan 28, 2018 16:58:19 GMT -5
As it stands this is my pick for number one. Not sure it'll stay there by the end but it'll take a great deal of effort to change that. This match ticks off just about every box I could want in wrestling from being a dream match to being a good use of time to being genuinely emotional. This match is gutturally effective to me, something that stands the hairs on my neck on end even on my 20th viewing. The smaller, more aesthetic elements like the venue, blood, and commentary are all fine bits of trimming on what is already a prime steak.
As far as as the two questions of the thread are concerned, I couldn't really care less about how many people saw a match live. That's more a concern for GWE discussions, I feel, the idea of drawing power and how that relates to an individual's case as the greatest, but I don't think that's relevant for matches by themselves. Plus I think that'd take us down a slippery slope of "well was this the match people came to see?" and I can't imagine anything duller than people arguing whether or not Savage/Steamboat is great when Hogan/Andre was the draw. As far as whether or not shorter matches can be truly great, I think that's up for debate. I'm of the opinion that it's about how you use that time but obviously there's a difference between a 30 second squash that's a lot of fun and a match that's well over 9 minutes that packs a lot into a short frame. Within this sub-10 minute window, the longer it goes the more I'm inclined to think it's great but it really is all about what's accomplished within that time. Matches like this and Ikeda/Ono are going to do real well for me because they manage to tell moving stories in an explosive manner that holds up to repeated viewings over the years, in a way that a lot of longer matches don't. If something that only goes five minutes can do that, it's sure as shit great to me.
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Post by bossrock on Jun 8, 2018 9:09:48 GMT -5
After a re-watch this will almost surely make my list. Some of the spots are just uncomfortable to watch, but I'll be damned if this is not only one of the best matches of the 2000's, but also one of the best sprints ever. Joe dominates a lot of this match but Necro just won't give up and is almost like a zombie in the way he keeps coming back. Controlled chaos at its absolute finest.
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Post by superstarsleeze on Feb 19, 2019 11:51:38 GMT -5
This wont make my list but HOLY SHIT was an asskicker. Let me just get this out of the way but this has to be the worst commentary I have ever heard. That does not affect my rating, but it is worth noting. Necro basically dies for our pleasure. He is a human crash test dummy as Joe just destroys him. Necro does have some great punches. I really enjoyed this.
Samoa Joe vs Necro Butcher - IWA-MidSouth 6/11/05
A very famous violent bloodbath that totally lives up to the hype. I am like 95% sure I have seen a Necro Butcher match live in Ring Of Honor in like 2009, but other than that I have never seen a Butcher match. Joe is a great asskicker and Butcher can sure take an asskicking so this makes for a match made in heaven or should I say Hell? There is bleeding hardway from headbutts, there are chair throws, there is a powerslam on Necro's forehead, yes forehead, CM Punk and I are incredulous. Oh by the way, the worst part of this match by far is the commentary. Eddie Kingston is fine. CM Punk's smarky commentary is bad. The most brutal part is Dave Prazak. You know what's worse than Joey Styles, a Joey Styles tribute act, Goddamn you Prazak you fucking blew in this match. Back to the match, the punches were incredible in this match. Rapid fire and stiff as fuck. The Holy Shit Spot for me in this match was when Joe spiked him on his busted open head from the apron to the floor on an exploder. That was fucking crazy. Dave Prazak fucking sucks in this match. The powerbomb on the railing was pretty nuts and one foot cover with bicep flex, but only a two. Wow! German Suplex on the chair! Necro Butcher is Mick Foley nuts! Necro's big comeback with these punches was incredible. Great punches and then Joe just unleashes the most brutal flurry of kneelifts. He nearly takes off his head and then kicks his head straight off for the KO victory. Total asskicker of a match! ****1/2
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Post by club on Jun 9, 2023 13:55:15 GMT -5
Pure filth.
My #100.
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