Before jumping into a response to fxnj, I just wanted to mention I first saw the match in either 1996 or 1997 when I first learned about AJPW. I wrote at extreme length about Hansen, AJPW, and Hansen's place in AJPW and what that impacted his work in the ring during the PWO GWE project. Here's the best example...
forums.prowrestlingonly.com/topic/28583-stan-hansen/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-5711498I bring this up not to be like "look at me, I'm smarty pants" but to indicate that I'm familiar with these wrestlers, their characters, their specific history with each other, the history of the promotion and what the promotions' needs were going forward. With that said, I'm going to reply point by point because I think you might be misunderstanding some of my thoughts.
I mean...I read a different review I guess?
As I said above, I am, as any seasoned 90s AJPW viewer would be very familiar with this. No promotion in history took wins & losses more seriously than AJPW. By February 1993 they are (I think) 3 years past the last disqualification or count out. Of course we know they didn't really do wild outside of the ring angles and promos. Instead stories were told through wins and losses and personal growth.
You are right about this match being a big deal for Kawada to show he can hang with Hansen. Jumbo's career as a serious competitor ended in 1992. The two most important things for AJPW in 1993 were to firmly establish Misawa as the Ace and establish Kawada as his credible #1 native rival.
Now, how does this play out in the match? Yes Kawada shows he can get hit hard and still come back. Is this in and of itself a compelling narrative?
Not to be flippant but even if someone had never seen or heard of either wrestler or even seen a wrestling match, this would be completely self evident based on the size of the competitors. "Bigger stronger guy dishes out more punishment in fewer shots than smaller guy" is one of the oldest cliches possible. This sort of narrative is not unique to pro wrestling and might actually predate the very concept of pro wrestling.
Hansen went toe to toe with Andre the Giant and had wins over Baba and Inoki. He was always going to be able to absorb Kawada's blows and turn the tide quickly. This isn't unique to Kawada, Hansen, this era of AJPW or pro wrestling. So how does their portrayal in the match compare to something like Vader vs Tamura 6/94 who are doing the exact same thing? Or even Hansen vs Kobashi? I'm not asking "do they do it." I'm asking how they do it and then pushing further to ask "is that all time great or is it just good? Is it logical?"
Makes sense. Bigger guy using size and physicality to overpower a smaller guy who struggles to prevent that is pretty standard in wrestling and other physical activities. Is this the best portrayal of that very basic narrative?
Do they do a better or worse job of this transition than Hogan/Andre at WrestleMania III? It is the same concept. Smaller guy attempts to slam bigger guy but it back fires due to bigger guy being bigger.
To be clear, I'm not saying what Kawada/Hansen did there was bad at all. In fact that sounds like a perfectly logical thing to do when a smaller wrestler suplexes a bigger wrestler. Is a spot like that unique to Kawada, Hansen or this match?
I do remember Hansen's tackles being awesome in the match. I was always faked out by this match because it started with an early awesome Hansen tackle and I remember always thinking "Oh yeah, this is going to be the time I really dig this match" and then I always end up losing interest and wanting to watch the Kobashi match again.
I mean, sure you can point to that match...but Kawada has been selling his knee since the 1988 RWTL when
Hansen & Gordy went to town on Kawada's leg in one of the most famous matches in the history of the promotion and Kawada's first major match. Kawada's knee failing him is one of the over arching themes of his entire career against
everyone. Dude's probably selling his knee right now
My point in singling this out is to say that Leg work isn't unique to a Kawada match. It was standard operating procedure.
Now. I'm NOT saying this is bad necessarily. Leg work is perfectly fine. Awesome when done well and Kawada is considered to be one of the best at it.
In fact, combining leg work in a big man/little man context is really smart and when done well can be the backbone of a really great match.
My question is...is it good? Is it interesting? Is it varied? Is it focused? Is it sold well and consistently? Is it the best of all time at these things? Is it one of the best of all time?
Has anyone ever pointed to the leg work as a reason this match is great? Like when people talk about the all time great body part focused matches, has Hansen vs Kawada 2/93 ever been brought up as an example? Should it be?
Is leg work in general or specifically in a Kawada match or even more specifically in a Hansen/Kawada match unique?
I mean, this sounds like an awesome strategy. "Dude has a history of destroying my knee so I'm going to destroy his for revenge?" That's badass and something I can support.
My question is.
Is this a good strategy? Hansen's biggest weapon is his lariat. He's much bigger and slower than Kawada and taking out is leg is a great way to make him even slower. Is the speed advantage going to outweigh the power/one shot KO ability when the guy uses his arms to try and knock you out?
Regardless of whether or not it is good strategy against this specific opponent, do they do a good job of putting over the idea that slowing Hansen down even more gives Kawada more room to stick and move and play up his speed/mobility advantage? Does that idea manifest itself in the ring work? Is is great? Is it unique?
Why would Hansen stop going after Kawada's leg? Kawada's knee failing him is the story of his career from the famous 1988 match until the end. It was literally the focus of Kawada's 1993 which is why the Tag Final is so highly regarded. Why would Stan Hansen, who started the trend of killing Kawada's knee get away from the knee work if Kawada had given him an opening? Nothing in Kawada's story up to this point would possibly lead Hansen to thinking "Oh, I better come up with something else" instead of attacking this guy who's legs are his greatness weakness AND weapon.
Going after Kawada's legs is perfectly sound psychology, and 1993 was a great year especially to do it.
Stan Hansen not thinking that kneecapping
Kawada would lead to victory is inconsistent with the entire narrative of their rivalry.
I think "they just dropped it and moved on to something else" in this match is preferable to "They blew off the entire narrative of their rivalry up to that point because they decided it wouldn't work even though it working was a crucial storyline to the year in the promotion and the overall career of one of the participants."
You misunderstand my point on the slap. I understand that it was a transition that he thought was cool as fuck. What I'm saying is that is stupid to do "realistic" selling of "I've been KO'd" where you slump limp unable to control your limbs because you've been knocked silly is a stupid thing to do 3 minutes into a 20+ minute match with Stan Hansen.
I understand exactly what they're doing. My argument is that it is dumb and Kawada shouldn't have done that at that time.
My argument is that it was a dumb decision, not that I don't get it.
You don't need to "get across Hansen's power" in 1993 AJPW. That's ridiculous. Those fans know exactly who Stan Hansen is and what he's capable of. They've been watching him for more than a decade. He's beaten Baba, Inoki, Jumbo, Tenryu, Choshu, etc. You think he has to prove himself against 1993 Kawada?
I'm not going to go through the Kawada KO spot stuff point by point because we fundamentally disagree and that is not something that is likely to change for me. My dislike of that spot is hardly specific to this match. There are definitely times when it is a great spot but more often than not it is a "cool spot" rolled out here in a completely meaningless way. Are there MMA fighters who get knocked out for a split second and then wake when their opponent follows up in every single match and sometimes multiple times a match? Are they considered good fighters who regularly contend for the World Championship? Is that smart? It is definitely the one unique thing I've found in this discussion.
I don't disagree with your characterization of Stan Hansen at all. What you seem to not be taking into account is where AJPW was at this point and what Kawada meant prior to and at this time.
The most important things to happen in AJPW in 1993 were solidifying Misawa as the Ace of the promotion with Jumbo's career as a serious competitor officially over. Realistically going into 1993, the AJPW main event hierarchy looked like this:
Hansen
Misawa
Gordy
Williams
Those were four of the top 5 (with Jumbo) in the 92 Champions Carnival. The goals of 1993 AJPW were to firmly establish Misawa above Hansen and get Kawada established as Misawa's top rival. It is important to remember Misawa & Kawada were still teaming in December 1992 with Kawada as the clear 2nd, but he needed to be elevated in 1993 to go opposite Misawa as his main native rival. They had the match the previous October of course but that was a babyface vs babyface teammates Title match. Prior to that, I don't think they had been opposite in a match in like 18 months or 2 years or something, too lazy to look it up.
Of course Kawada had been steadily moving up the ladder but it is important to remember that he is just two years into a change in style when he switched from working in a blowjob babyface workrate tag to a guy who focused on trying to punish and kick the shit out of people. If Misawa was the Ace, Kobashi the prodigy, Taue the big guy, Kawada was to be the ass kicker. That's a big change from basically the Japanese version of Tommy Rogers two years prior. I understand and agree with he was more than just an ass kicker he bought off more than he could chew pov, even if your description kind of gives off the idea that he was a plucky underdog, which is half true. He was an underdog, but he was an asshole. I think it is undeniable compared to the other Pillars that Kawada was the sadistic guy who delighted in kicking people in the face. That's why he gets the "ass kicker" label from folks. That he was so often on the losing end even in "ass kicking exchanges" is what makes the Kawada character so interesting.
Anyway, by this point in 1993 Kawada was basically at the halfway point between the end of Footloose and 6/9/95. He wasn't yet established as the #2 native rival to Misawa by the time this match happened, he was still technically Misawa's partner. It was after this series and before the next that Baba "asked" Kawada & Taue to make nice and team up to go opposite Misawa & Kobashi.
Hansen was the measuring stick of the promotion. You could track where guys were in AJPW based on how they did against Hansen. So I personally think Kawada doing the KO spot that early was a dumb choice. The important realities are that the fans weren't bothered by it and it didn't hurt the overall story they were trying to tell. I understand that. My argument that I think it is dumb doesn't matter. What matters is the fans saw Kawada in a super hard hitting match where he was standing in there getting blasted with Hansen and giving it back to him so he can show his toughness and it WORKED in helping cement Kawada as a tough motherfucker who is closer than we thought.
That it was successful for the promotion, the wrestlers and the fans is great and what really matters. That folks like us have watched it for decades and loved it and gotten enjoyment out of it is great and awesome. I would love to see what is so special in spite of seeing it numerous times and being very familiar with the people involved and surrounding context.