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Post by kas on Mar 21, 2019 17:25:12 GMT -5
This is something I've been debating for some time now, as I feel that's it's one of the most important aspects of ring-work to make it feel like you're not just doing the same things over and over with no variation, as that would get very stale quickly. I settled on Bret Hart, as even though 99% of his matches are him working the leg of his opponent, it's the subtle ways he changes the work and the overall structure of a match that makes him a master at this sort of thing. Other wrestlers that rival him in this aspect are Terry Funk, Stan Hansen, Kawada, Tanahashi, Jumbo, Tenryu, Austin, and Omega, at least in my opinion. Who do you guys think does this the best?
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Post by stunninggrover on Mar 22, 2019 20:01:09 GMT -5
I'd have to agree that Bret Hart is the most detail-oriented wrestler. Toshiaki Kawada would probably be my #2 pick.
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Post by fxnj on Mar 23, 2019 0:37:07 GMT -5
Piper is a name that doesn't really get mentioned much, but he deserves some love for his performance in the 7/83 Valentine match. It's a unique match and there's not even any commentary to explain what's going on, but Piper's body language is so great that it's very easy to follow along with what's happening and get into it.
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Post by Cap on Mar 24, 2019 21:01:35 GMT -5
I agree with most of the names floated out there so far. I also think a lot of the high end shoot guys belong on that list: Tamura, Han, Fujiwara, Kohsaka, Yamamoto. Bryan is probably the first guy I think of.
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Post by microstatistics on Mar 24, 2019 21:08:43 GMT -5
It's funny, Bret to me is a total big picture guy. That's not to say he didn't sprinkle little details in some of his matches but impeccable match layouts were his biggest strength. That's why 3 Bret singles bouts made my final list.
For the shoot style guys, I think Han is more detailed oriented than Tamura.
Bryan is a good one. Satanico might be the guy when it comes to this.
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Post by KB8 on Mar 25, 2019 6:55:58 GMT -5
It's funny, Bret to me is a total big picture guy. That's not to say he didn't sprinkle little details in some of his matches but impeccable match layouts were his biggest strength. That's why 3 Bret singles bouts made my final list. Yeah, agreed with this. If I'm thinking of wrestlers who add lots of great little touches and attention to detail to things I think of guys like Dundee, Arn, Murdoch, Fujiwara, Satanico, Funk, Casas, Finlay. I've never thought of Bret as being particularly detail-oriented like those guys. His matwork is pretty by the numbers, his stuff looks crisp and his match layouts are often really strong, but I've never seen Bret do a Finlay and stomp on someone's fingers out of the blue or work holds with as many subtle details as Fujiwara (or any strong mat wrestler, really). |
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Post by Cap on Mar 25, 2019 8:54:23 GMT -5
I kind of do think of Hart as fairly detail oriented. I think of him in the context of the 90s WWF/E and felt like he did lots of little things to set himself apart. I guess some of that is layout and maybe I am sort of conflating the two, but I usually find one or two little things in a good Bret match I like. Though, I might have just stumbled upon the key... "good Bret match". Maybe that isn't always the case, but is with his high end stuff.
KB8's avatar made me think of another guy who should be on the list. I think Eddie had great attention to detail. He was so complete and nuanced, especially later in his career.
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Post by tetsujin on Mar 25, 2019 11:31:56 GMT -5
Negro Casas, Bryan Danielson, Nick Bockwinkel, Mitsuharu Misawa and Kenta Kobashi are the kings of organic details in pro wrestling.
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Post by KB8 on Mar 25, 2019 12:58:51 GMT -5
Bockwinkel and Eddie are great shouts as well, yeah. Eddie doing things like taking a little longer to climb the turnbuckles and then almost slipping off after those lengthy Benoit headlocks, or getting creative with the heeling/lying, cheating and stealing, tying two tag ropes together so he could effectively make a "legal" tag while standing in the middle of the apron, etc.
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Post by kas on Mar 25, 2019 13:06:44 GMT -5
Bockwinkel and Eddie are great shouts as well, yeah. Eddie doing things like taking a little longer to climb the turnbuckles and then almost slipping off after those lengthy Benoit headlocks, or getting creative with the heeling/lying, cheating and stealing, tying two tag ropes together so he could effectively make a "legal" tag while standing in the middle of the apron, etc. Haven't seen enough Bockwinkel to make a judgment, but I have no idea how I forgot to include Eddie in this list. One of the most creative wrestling minds I've ever seen, and someone who has no two matches that feel the exact same. |
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Post by Cap on Mar 25, 2019 14:28:34 GMT -5
Yeah, Bock is a top pick here.
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Post by tetsujin on Mar 26, 2019 19:29:29 GMT -5
Damn I feel bad for not thinking about Eddie too. He was so, so unique at those little things. He wrestled with passion every single time.
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Post by bossrock on Mar 30, 2019 8:27:21 GMT -5
I'd probably say Misawa and Kawada with their selling and approaches with offense. Misawa's selling during his comeback in the 1995 match with Kobashi really stands out. His offense seems really tepid after the onslaught he withstood and even his Tiger Suplex lacks oomph. He then decides to try again and has a lot more force behind it.
Although the Misawa-Kawada matches in later years didn't have a ton of structure (with the exception of 1/22/1999) they always seemed to have really good strategies against other opponents.
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