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Post by elliott on Jun 18, 2019 11:08:42 GMT -5
I really hesitated to mention Matsunaga and readily admit that his inclusion is due to ignorance. The only stuff I watched in the last 10 years is probably the Otsuka match and the Stop the Matsunaga Comp. Pimp some stuff for me!
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Post by bossrock on Jun 18, 2019 17:54:53 GMT -5
I would probably say Undertaker as well.
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Post by Cap on Jun 19, 2019 17:55:53 GMT -5
I'm curious, do people see Taker as a "bad wrestler"? The first massive chunk of his career is crap and of course recent memory doesn't help his case, but he has a pretty solid resume of very good to great matches and was a rock (in and out of the ring) for the company for quite a while.
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Post by nintendologic on Jun 19, 2019 21:10:42 GMT -5
I wouldn't call Taker a bad wrestler, but he probably is the worst wrestler with as many good-to-great matches on his resume.
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Post by bossrock on Jun 19, 2019 21:15:31 GMT -5
I wouldn't call Taker a bad wrestler, but he probably is the worst wrestler with as many good-to-great matches on his resume. I'm in the same boat. Was never awful and did the best he could with a gimmick that limited his output the first couple years (not to mention he frequently worked with pretty terrible workers). But very much someone who had a few really good peaks and very little volume.
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Post by elliott on Jun 19, 2019 21:35:47 GMT -5
Setting Warrior aside, I'm gonna go with Rick Rude. Not to say he's bad, but he is wildly inconsistent and has had a fair few stinkers. No
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Post by Cap on Jun 20, 2019 7:17:14 GMT -5
I suppose I would agree that he is one of the worst individual talents who has a number of great matches. I just see him as having a pretty substantial body of those matches. I also think Taker is a relatively unique case. His range of matches is SOOOO vast because his career was so long and he somehow got way way better and then got way worse. There are others I think who have a flash great match or two but generally don't produce at a high level, but that isn't really Taker's case.
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Post by kas on Jun 20, 2019 8:23:44 GMT -5
Setting Warrior aside, I'm gonna go with Rick Rude. Not to say he's bad, but he is wildly inconsistent and has had a fair few stinkers. No I just think for every Hashimoto, Steamboat, and Chono at the G1 match, there's a Hawk, Dustin Rhodes, and Chono at Halloween Havoc match. On his day he is fantastic, and you cant overlook the fact that he's on of the few to drag Warrior to a good match, but on his worst days he really could put on some bad ones.
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Post by kas on Jun 20, 2019 8:34:41 GMT -5
Undertaker is a contender but I give a little bit of slack for a couple of reasons. 1. His match with Luger in'89 showed that his early WWF run wasn't entirely on him, more on the fact that he was working a horrible style and was given bad opponents to work with. It's telling that as soon as he was given Foley and Hart he put on good to great matches. And 2. Even in his later career, he was given rubbish to work with. Heidenreich, Luther Reigns, that storyline with Nathan Jones leading to that handicap tag at WM 19, just to name a few. But you can't ignore that he has to shoulder some of the blame for that terrible 91-95 run and that his 99-01 run was terrible, with him looking completely out of shape and just not at the level you'd expect for a main eventer.
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Post by elliott on Jun 20, 2019 23:25:26 GMT -5
I just think for every Hashimoto, Steamboat, and Chono at the G1 match, there's a Hawk, Dustin Rhodes, and Chono at Halloween Havoc match. On his day he is fantastic, and you cant overlook the fact that he's on of the few to drag Warrior to a good match, but on his worst days he really could put on some bad ones. I get the idea that he's inconsistent, but I think he brings more than enough to the table to consider him very good over the course of his career. There's stuff in Memphis I like a lot, although he is clearly green and being carried. The Raging and Ravishing team was awesome and had the great feud with the RnR's. Had legit great matches with Warrior. The Piper Cage match is one of the best late 80s early 90s wwe matches. His 1992 has long been considered one of the best individual years of the modern era (post 84) from a non-Flair American worker. In terms of the particulars; he had great charisma, was an excellent bumper, good-great seller, terrific offense & had one of the best finishers of his era that always looked brutal. He could be a vicious heel and bumping stooging comedic fool all within the same match. Could he get chinlockey? Absolutely. Did he have some terrible matches? Yes. But he was waaaaay more good than bad both in input and output. And this is all without even really mentioning his memorable character work which was one of the defining characters in wrestling history. Also the spot where he tries to do the hip swivel but can't because he's selling injured ribs and/or back is one of the single best signature spots in the history of wrestling.
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Post by kas on Jun 21, 2019 6:48:17 GMT -5
I just think for every Hashimoto, Steamboat, and Chono at the G1 match, there's a Hawk, Dustin Rhodes, and Chono at Halloween Havoc match. On his day he is fantastic, and you cant overlook the fact that he's on of the few to drag Warrior to a good match, but on his worst days he really could put on some bad ones. I get the idea that he's inconsistent, but I think he brings more than enough to the table to consider him very good over the course of his career. There's stuff in Memphis I like a lot, although he is clearly green and being carried. The Raging and Ravishing team was awesome and had the great feud with the RnR's. Had legit great matches with Warrior. The Piper Cage match is one of the best late 80s early 90s wwe matches. His 1992 has long been considered one of the best individual years of the modern era (post 84) from a non-Flair American worker. In terms of the particulars; he had great charisma, was an excellent bumper, good-great seller, terrific offense & had one of the best finishers of his era that always looked brutal. He could be a vicious heel and bumping stooging comedic fool all within the same match. Could he get chinlockey? Absolutely. Did he have some terrible matches? Yes. But he was waaaaay more good than bad both in input and output. And this is all without even really mentioning his memorable character work which was one of the defining characters in wrestling history. Also the spot where he tries to do the hip swivel but can't because he's selling injured ribs and/or back is one of the single best signature spots in the history of wrestling. Oh absolutely, he is still a great wrestler, and looking back on my list I definitely have been too harsh on him, there's definitely others like Fuchi, Kikuchi, or Umaga who I think are worse. Rude was just one that popped into my head instantly for some reason.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 9:27:39 GMT -5
Dory Funk
(Just kidding....or am I?)
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Post by Cap on Aug 11, 2020 9:38:14 GMT -5
Dory's greatest sin was having one of the best wrestlers ever as a brother. I don't think Dory is bad... but he is categorically not Terry.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 11:51:57 GMT -5
I prefer Dory in tags, he provides the ice to Terry's fire and throws a mean uppercut. My problem having watched Dory against the likes of Brisco, Robinson and Jumbo is that his rep is based on his matwork and yet pretty much ALL the struggle and emotion during mat sequences is generated by the other guy.
Terry isn't even seen as a matworker and yet that stuff against Race is insane. In one match he manages to be more compelling on the mat than Dory is across hours of footage. I think Dory v Race is my own idea of wrestling hell. I usually get proved wrong about this kind of stuff, they probably had numerous bangers back in the day.
The Hoffman match is probably my favourite Dory performance but it's been a while since I saw it.
Not that it will happen, but I would love a good chunk of earlier Dory stuff to get uncovered to see if he had more Texas rattlesnake in him as a younger wrestler.
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Post by elliott on Aug 11, 2020 14:50:08 GMT -5
Looking at my list, Tommy Dreamer made my top 100 twice and he's probably my pick for worst name wrestler of the last 30 years
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