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Post by Cap on Jul 18, 2019 15:26:41 GMT -5
Not everyone's cup of tea, certainly not mine all the time, but someone who's athleticism seems undeniable to me. He is also deceptively good at working with a number of different types of opponents. I think when he is doing his thing I can't deny its greatness, even if it isn't my favorite, but the line between him peaking in match and overdoing it is THIN.
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Post by bossrock on Jul 19, 2019 17:13:45 GMT -5
It's become increasingly difficult to find measured opinions of Kenny Omega. He's either the best in the world and one of the greatest ever or an overrated hack who can't work. I tend to lean more towards the former as I had him as either number 1 or 2 the last two years (2017 could be argued for Okada and 2018 could be argued for WALTER). However, I certainly understand the criticisms. His leg selling can be spotty due to how many V-Triggers he throws per match and his comebacks come a bit too easily. He's certainly not the only wrestler to work a go-go-go style in this day and age but the praise he receives makes him the easiest one to criticize. And his facials, while they don't bug me nearly as much as others, are a bit over-the-top and he's super histrionic.
But on the other hand, he may very well be the greatest wrestler in the world when it comes to offense. Not just the number of moves he uses, but how good he makes them look. Obviously everyone points to the V-Trigger, but his tope suicida is perfect every time. His dragon suplex almost defies logic with how fast it is. His timing, execution, and overall athleticism is something to behold. And while his selling can be spotty, he's had a number of very good selling performances as well and he's a very underrated bumper.
His big match performances also pretty undeniable IMO. The Okada series is one of my favorites ever and all four matches made my ballot. The Naito and Ishii series also come pretty close. The Golden Lovers were also my pick for best tag team last year and the Bucks match, as sacrilegious as it sounds, is the best US tag match I've ever seen. He's also had a decent amount of matches elevating lesser workers like Adam Page and Jay Lethal.
A friend of mine once likened him to Kobashi, and I think it's a pretty fair comparison: master of offense, can be a great seller, very dramatic and over-the-top. He just lacks the charm Kobashi had in the latter department.
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Post by Cap on Jul 20, 2019 8:20:45 GMT -5
The Kobashi comparison is an interesting one. I can see that for sure. It also brings it into focus for me because I have some qualms with Omega (but I certainly don't hate him). While Kobashi is in the GOAT conversation for me.
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Post by bossrock on Dec 1, 2019 17:27:45 GMT -5
Re-visiting Kenny's pre-NJPW work and his run as AJPW Junior Champion is really good. May not change anyone's minds on his ability as a wrestler, but his offense and athleticism was as on-point then as it is now.
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Post by Cap on Dec 1, 2019 19:28:02 GMT -5
I would like to go back and revisit some of that eventually. He always felt like a guy who was missing something until he found his stride as the a true championship contender in NJPW. I remember always wanting to like his indy US indie work more than I did.
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Post by tetsujin on Dec 1, 2019 20:52:26 GMT -5
I don't buy the Kobashi comparison at all, not because they don't have the same approach (they have), but because they're literally the best and worse examples of that approach. Kobashi is the best type of the maximalist and dramatic pro wrestler that Omega tries to be... But Omega's terrible acting performances and pacing of his matches are dumb. Kobashi, on the other hand, might be the best ever at it.
That aside, "kamikaze spot monkey with a similar foe" Kenny is my favourite Kenny (vs Naito, vs Ibushi, vs Moxley...). Hell, the first Naito/Omega match is currently my #2 best match ever. But I don't like him most of the times, when he dictates the pace of the matches with workers that clearly are not good as good at his stuff as him, and I totally hate Oscar for best drama-candidate Kenny. And when both of those things appear at the same time, he creates atrocities like Okada/Omega IV (a match that will age very badly, remember this post) or Omega/Cody. So yeah, a very hit or miss dude.
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Post by bossrock on Dec 1, 2019 22:17:37 GMT -5
I don't buy the Kobashi comparison at all, not because they don't have the same approach (they have), but because they're literally the best and worse examples of that approach. Kobashi is the best type of the maximalist and dramatic pro wrestler that Omega tries to be... But Omega's terrible acting performances and pacing of his matches are dumb. Kobashi, on the other hand, might be the best ever at it. I disagree on his pacing, I think that's one of the most underrated parts of his game. His matches certainly have a "more is more" approach and can be a bit over-indulgent, but the build to the bigger spots and finishing stretch almost always makes sense and feels like a big deal. While a lot of his contemporaries are just "move, move, move, superkick, superkick, superkick", a lot of his matches at least give time for things to breathe. I think the Cody IWGP title match where they're just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks is more of an exception than the rule. As for his acting, apart from his exaggerated facials and occasional over-selling I've never gotten the thespian vibe from him apart from the Lovers-Bucks match (you know what spot I'm talking about) and MAYBE the 4th Okada match (the part where they're both lying on the ropes).
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Post by Cap on Dec 2, 2019 14:53:40 GMT -5
I go back and forth on him so much. He is sort of a guy that I like in spite of what he is. It isn't really a style I gravitate towards, but I have trouble being overly critical of Omega. I often find myself going, "blah blah blah (insert criticism) blah blah, but it works for Kenny". I see how that can bee seen as "getting a pass", but I don't have an investment in him. I am not a homer for him. I think it generally just works for him. He is - for me at least - one of the best cases as the sum being more important than the parts. His charisma and presence and commitment to what he does as an art (whether we like it or not) generally outweighs all the criticisms I often have when I look at just parts of what he does. I agree his acting is cheesy. I agree he can be excessive. I think his pacing can be hit or miss, but more importantly it can be exhausting when you look at him in context and not just on a match-by-match. But Kenny makes it all work for me. He still feels like a star. He still feels like a big deal and I still enjoy his work a lot.
More than anything - and forgive me, I am just riffing here while I have some time to kill - Kenny had the right style at the right time and in the right place to make him a star. He is as much as anything a product of circumstance. Before NJPW caught fire and started occupying a certain space in the wrestling landscape you could see Kenny as a forever potential guy. That is kinda what I thought he would be for a bit, a guy I liked a good bit and thought had talent, but would probably never really find his footing to hit the next level. Then things fell into place and here we are.
Now I think we are at a real turning point for Kenny. He can't just be the best bout machine in AEW and he isn't trying. They are carving out a very particular long term narrative for him that seems designed to use his star power to build some people up along the way to somewhat of a transformation of his character and an ultimate redemption (type) story where he emerge from his rut. I think the degree of difficulty here is pretty high. I think some of the nuance he tries to work into this is 1) harder to pull out because its wrapped in such a flashy package (that everyone has seemingly made up their mind about anyway) and 2) not always his strength. I think when we look back on these first few years of AEW, that is where Kenny will either look a little one note and dependent on his athleticism or we will see that he was more well rounded. He is going to do a lot to diminish or elevate his stock in that time.
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