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Post by elliott on Jul 29, 2019 1:01:32 GMT -5
Shinya Hashimoto was one of the best pro wrestlers of all time. He might actually be my pick for the best Japanese Pro Style wrestler of the 90s. He understood that sometimes less is more and excelled at pacing, escalation, selling, psychology and drama. Didn't need to go 40minutes with 100 kickouts to have a memorable hot match. Has a huge list of great matches with a variety of people: Choshu, Tenryu, Chono, Muto, Hase, Liger, Fujinami, Zangiev, Takada, Kawada, Ogawa, Regal, etc. Was one of the great big match workers of all time and a terrific tag worker when put in that position.
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Post by Cap on Jul 29, 2019 12:40:53 GMT -5
There are very few things I actively like more than watching Hash kick the shit out of someone. None of his matches made my first list, but I'd like to revisit some of the high end matches at some point.
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Post by bossrock on Jul 29, 2019 15:38:39 GMT -5
I remember watching the matches recommended for him when the GWE was rolled-out and not quite seeing the hype. The Zangiev match was good and a case study in making the little things count, but I never saw it as "the greatest sub-10 minute match ever." The Liger match also didn't really do anything for me. But then I began to dive a bit deeper in his catalog and oh boy did I see the light. He brought the most fire and intensity of any wrestler I've ever seen. He could make any match feel like a theatrical clash of epic proportions with an amazingly minimalist approach (the '96 Choshu match and '98 G1 Finals stand out the most in this regard). Amazing striker and best kicker ever (sorry Kawada). I could watch his series with Tenryu for months on end. I'm still not the biggest fan of his more "sporting" matches and greatly prefer him as a violent asskicker, but there's no doubt he was very good on the mat as well.
Easy top 15-20 contender.
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Post by bossrock on Jul 29, 2019 15:40:02 GMT -5
There are very few things I actively like more than watching Hash kick the shit out of someone. None of his matches made my first list, but I'd like to revisit some of the high end matches at some point. He and Rey were the best wrestlers who both not only had just one match make the ballot, but neither make the top 50. I think that hurts his GOAT status for me, but his less-heralded stuff is still pretty great. |
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Post by Cap on Jul 29, 2019 15:45:35 GMT -5
I always sort of wonder how much of my opinion on Hash matches is colored by loving the AJPW stuff in the 90s. They were doing different things and I can completely understand some people preferring Hashimoto's brand of wrestling. My tastes have really evolved a good bit since I last dove into Hash matches.
I'd love to do a Samoa Joe/Hashimoto duel dive given the Hash influences on Joe. I think thats why i love Joe vs Kobashi so much and I have never really thought about it. It feels a little like a clash of universes not just in the NOAH vs ROH sense, but also in terms of 90s AJPW vs NJPW styles clashing in a way that I felt very satisfying.
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Post by elliott on Aug 1, 2019 2:57:24 GMT -5
I remember watching the matches recommended for him when the GWE was rolled-out and not quite seeing the hype. The Zangiev match was good and a case study in making the little things count, but I never saw it as "the greatest sub-10 minute match ever." The Liger match also didn't really do anything for me. But then I began to dive a bit deeper in his catalog and oh boy did I see the light. He brought the most fire and intensity of any wrestler I've ever seen. He could make any match feel like a theatrical clash of epic proportions with an amazingly minimalist approach (the '96 Choshu match and '98 G1 Finals stand out the most in this regard). Amazing striker and best kicker ever (sorry Kawada). I could watch his series with Tenryu for months on end. I'm still not the biggest fan of his more "sporting" matches and greatly prefer him as a violent asskicker, but there's no doubt he was very good on the mat as well.
Easy top 15-20 contender. Have you rewatched those matches since the worm turned for you on Hashimoto? On one hand I don't really consider the Liger match a top 100 contender and on the other hand, I think it is one of the most impressive matches of the decade considering the obstacles they had. Really genius level match from both guys. |
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Post by bossrock on Aug 1, 2019 19:16:49 GMT -5
I remember watching the matches recommended for him when the GWE was rolled-out and not quite seeing the hype. The Zangiev match was good and a case study in making the little things count, but I never saw it as "the greatest sub-10 minute match ever." The Liger match also didn't really do anything for me. But then I began to dive a bit deeper in his catalog and oh boy did I see the light. He brought the most fire and intensity of any wrestler I've ever seen. He could make any match feel like a theatrical clash of epic proportions with an amazingly minimalist approach (the '96 Choshu match and '98 G1 Finals stand out the most in this regard). Amazing striker and best kicker ever (sorry Kawada). I could watch his series with Tenryu for months on end. I'm still not the biggest fan of his more "sporting" matches and greatly prefer him as a violent asskicker, but there's no doubt he was very good on the mat as well.
Easy top 15-20 contender. Have you rewatched those matches since the worm turned for you on Hashimoto? On one hand I don't really consider the Liger match a top 100 contender and on the other hand, I think it is one of the most impressive matches of the decade considering the obstacles they had. Really genius level match from both guys. I haven't on the Liger match, but I have seen the Zangiev match a few times. Still not my favorite but definitely one I appreciate for the struggle conveyed with such simplicity. |
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Post by elliott on Aug 4, 2019 11:34:44 GMT -5
I always sort of wonder how much of my opinion on Hash matches is colored by loving the AJPW stuff in the 90s. They were doing different things and I can completely understand some people preferring Hashimoto's brand of wrestling. My tastes have really evolved a good bit since I last dove into Hash matches.
I'd love to do a Samoa Joe/Hashimoto duel dive given the Hash influences on Joe. I think thats why i love Joe vs Kobashi so much and I have never really thought about it. It feels a little like a clash of universes not just in the NOAH vs ROH sense, but also in terms of 90s AJPW vs NJPW styles clashing in a way that I felt very satisfying. This is interesting and not something that has ever occurred to me. I would have guessed Joe worshiped the 4 pillars & NJ juniors way more than Hashimoto the way Joe filled his matches with so much stuff. |
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Post by Cap on Aug 5, 2019 17:02:41 GMT -5
I feel like I have read that Hash was a massive influence on Joe. He was in Zero 1 before his ROH run.
Joe's peak matches (outside the Kobashi match) always struck me as more Hash influenced matches than pillars for whatever reason. He was an athletic bruiser. I am sure he takes influences from both, but that is the association in my mind
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Post by microstatistics on Aug 6, 2019 0:03:57 GMT -5
Yeah, the Joe/Hashimoto parallel is definitely there. They had similar physiques too. I get Elliott's point in that Joe was more maximalist than Hashimoto so agree with Cap, his style was a combination of everything.
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Post by elliott on Sept 8, 2019 5:28:34 GMT -5
Best Hashimoto match not involving Choshu or Tenryu?
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Post by tetsujin on Sept 8, 2019 7:58:23 GMT -5
Maybe the 94 Hase title match. People usualy love the Liger match from the same year, but I'm not really high on it. And it's been a while since I watched the Misawa tag.
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Post by nintendologic on Sept 8, 2019 8:22:36 GMT -5
The 1998 G1 final against Kazuo Yamazaki doesn't get nearly enough love. I'm honestly kind of flabbergasted that no one but me had it on their ballot.
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Post by bossrock on Sept 8, 2019 8:56:40 GMT -5
It's definitely one of my favorites of his. Like I mentioned upthread it's one of the best examples of Hashimoto using a minimalist approach to make the match feel like such an epic spectacle.
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Post by microstatistics on Sept 8, 2019 19:05:59 GMT -5
Best Hashimoto match not involving Choshu or Tenryu? I have all these at **** or more. Bold ones are ****1/2+ vs. Regal 4/16/1995 vs. N. Ogawa 10/11/1999 and 4/7/2000
w/ Iizuka vs. Ogawa/Murakami 1/4/2000 vs. Takada 4/29/1996vs. Hase 12/13/1994 vs. Fujinami 6/5/1998 and 10/9/2000 w/Otsuka vs. Misawa/Y. Ogawa 1/13/2001 vs. Liger 2/24/1994 |
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