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Post by bossrock on Jul 29, 2019 16:12:12 GMT -5
Of all the grumpy ass-kickers in wrestling, Tenryu is KING grumpy ass-kicker. Obviously his 80's AJPW stuff is highly regarded (and righfully so) and credited for helping pave the way for King's Road, but his 90's and early 2000's work is arguably more compelling if maybe not quite as good. He's another wrestler who could wear so many different hats and work with so many different opponents and still produce greatness. Exploding barbed-wire cage match with Onita? It's a hoot. Sprints with Tanahashi, Anjoh, and Sano? Great. Epic title match against Mutoh in AJPW? 2001 MOTYC. Hard-hitting wars against Hashimoto and Kawada? Excellent.
Given his longevity, peaks, and variety in styles/opponents, Genichiro Tenryu may very well be the greatest wrestler ever.
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Post by elliott on Jul 30, 2019 18:11:52 GMT -5
Best Japanese wrestler is really a 3 person race for me between Tenryu, Fujiwara & Tamura. I've leaned towards Fujiwara recently because I think he has a lot of the same strengths as Tenryu in regards to longevity, depth of matches, variety of opponents etc but I think Fujiwara can do more in the ring. I don't really want to see Tenryu work the mat, but Fujiwara is one of the best matworkers ever. However, Tenryu is on the short list of the best big spectacle wrestler ever and that is exactly the sort of style that appeals to me.
Tenryu's feud with Jumbo is probably the best feud in AJPW history in terms of peak matches & depth of great matches. NJPW vs WAR was one of the great feuds of 90s Japan built completely on the back of Tenryu.
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Post by microstatistics on Jul 30, 2019 20:40:25 GMT -5
I had Tenryu at #1 in GWE 2016 for the reasons bossrock outlined. I have a lot of regrets about my 2016 ballot but putting Tenryu at the top is probably not one of them, even though if we did the list today he likely wouldn't be nearly that high. Everytime I watch a match with him, I can understand my reasoning at the time.
Unlike others GOAT contenders, for me, he is hurt most by the fact that he lacks that collection of all time classics. 6/5/1989 is there but everything else hovers in the ****-****1/4 region (though that ranges includes a ridiculous number of matches against a ridiculous variety of opponents).
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Post by bossrock on Jul 30, 2019 21:26:34 GMT -5
I don't really want to see Tenryu work the mat, but Fujiwara is one of the best matworkers ever. As much as I can appreciate "sporting" Tenryu, grumpy brawler Tenryu is indeed better.
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Post by KB8 on Jul 31, 2019 9:25:59 GMT -5
I actually redid my GWE ballot a few months ago and like Elliot I had Tenryu, Fujiwara and Tamura as my top 3 from Japan. Tenryu was my overall #2 in 2016 and he'd be my overall #2 today (my #1 in 2016 was Hansen, today it'd be Casas).
Curmudgeonly old bastards are the very best and Tenryu is the greatest curmudgeonly old bastard of them all. At this point in my life I have a very different idea of what a ****1/2+ match might look like compared to what it might've looked like ten years ago (I don't really bother with star ratings, but you take my meaning), so while I can see where people are coming from when they say Tenryu doesn't have a litany of all-time classic level matches, he absolutely ticks all the boxes I'd want in a superclassic and he's done it a whole bunch of times. So based on my stylistic preferences he has about as many matches on my ballot for this as anybody else.
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Post by elliott on Aug 1, 2019 2:48:27 GMT -5
I think Tenryu has plenty of all time classic matches its just a lot of them were tag matches and for some reason tags only count if it was 90s AJPW not 70s or 80s AJPW w/ Jumbo vs Choshu & Yatsu Multiple w/ Jumbo vs Choshu & Khan w/ Kawada vs Hansen & Gordy w/ Kawada vs Jumbo & Yatsu w/ Hara vs Jumbo & Yatsu w/ Hansen vs Jumbo & Yatsu w/ Hansen vs Baba & Kimura w/ Hansen vs Jumbo & Kobashi w/ Hara vs Onita & Goto 4 Jumbo vs Tenryu singles matches made the top 13 of the DVDVR AJ 80s set. FOUR out of the top 13!
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Post by elliott on Aug 1, 2019 2:49:29 GMT -5
I don't really want to see Tenryu work the mat, but Fujiwara is one of the best matworkers ever. As much as I can appreciate "sporting" Tenryu, grumpy brawler Tenryu is indeed better. I will say I love that Flair match from WAR in 1992.
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Post by KB8 on Aug 1, 2019 5:29:28 GMT -5
I think Tenryu has plenty of all time classic matches its just a lot of them were tag matches and for some reason tags only count if it was 90s AJPW not 70s or 80s AJPW w/ Jumbo vs Choshu & Yatsu Multiple w/ Jumbo vs Choshu & Khan w/ Kawada vs Hansen & Gordy w/ Kawada vs Jumbo & Yatsu w/ Hara vs Jumbo & Yatsu w/ Hansen vs Jumbo & Yatsu w/ Hansen vs Baba & Kimura w/ Hansen vs Jumbo & Kobashi w/ Hara vs Onita & Goto 4 Jumbo vs Tenryu singles matches made the top 13 of the DVDVR AJ 80s set. FOUR out of the top 13! For tags I'd also add: w/ Orihara v Kabuki & Kitahara w/ Ishikawa v Hashimoto & Ohara w/ Kawada v Hansen & Kea w/ Fuchi v Kawada & Araya w/ Araya v Kea & Miyamoto The WAR/New Japan feud is my pick for the best in-ring feud in wrestling history and it also produced, among a metric ton of great stuff, the 2/93 multi-man match that I'll have in my top 15 (I'll have four Tenryu matches top 20 - which is more than I'll have for anybody else - and two will be top 5). I think his resume is pretty absurd, from the all-time classics to those in the "****-****1/4" range that Micro pointed out, down to those random ten minute undercard matches against guys like Isao Takagi or Tatsuo Nakano that are great fun in their own right. And yeah, as a big time spectacle worker he's pretty peerless.
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Post by bossrock on Aug 1, 2019 19:12:29 GMT -5
As much as I can appreciate "sporting" Tenryu, grumpy brawler Tenryu is indeed better. I will say I love that Flair match from WAR in 1992. Was that the 2/3 falls match? I think I may have seen that one, although I know they wrestled a few times in the 90's. I liked it a lot.
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Post by bossrock on Aug 1, 2019 19:14:51 GMT -5
I think Tenryu has plenty of all time classic matches its just a lot of them were tag matches and for some reason tags only count if it was 90s AJPW not 70s or 80s AJPW w/ Jumbo vs Choshu & Yatsu Multiple w/ Jumbo vs Choshu & Khan w/ Kawada vs Hansen & Gordy w/ Kawada vs Jumbo & Yatsu w/ Hara vs Jumbo & Yatsu w/ Hansen vs Jumbo & Yatsu w/ Hansen vs Baba & Kimura w/ Hansen vs Jumbo & Kobashi w/ Hara vs Onita & Goto 4 Jumbo vs Tenryu singles matches made the top 13 of the DVDVR AJ 80s set. FOUR out of the top 13! For tags I'd also add: w/ Orihara v Kabuki & Kitahara w/ Ishikawa v Hashimoto & Ohara w/ Kawada v Hansen & Kea w/ Fuchi v Kawada & Araya w/ Araya v Kea & Miyamoto The WAR/New Japan feud is my pick for the best in-ring feud in wrestling history and it also produced, among a metric ton of great stuff, the 2/93 multi-man match that I'll have in my top 15 (I'll have four Tenryu matches top 20 - which is more than I'll have for anybody else - and two will be top 5). I think his resume is pretty absurd, from the all-time classics to those in the "****-****1/4" range that Micro pointed out, down to those random ten minute undercard matches against guys like Isao Takagi or Tatsuo Nakano that are great fun in their own right. And yeah, as a big time spectacle worker he's pretty peerless. I'd add: w/ Ishikawa vs. Choshu and Hashimoto (WAR 2/4/1993) w/ Akiyama vs. Kobahis and Akiyama (NOAH 4/25/2005)
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Post by bossrock on Aug 4, 2019 12:55:39 GMT -5
As much as I can appreciate "sporting" Tenryu, grumpy brawler Tenryu is indeed better. I will say I love that Flair match from WAR in 1992. I was mistaken and had seen a different 2/3 falls match. Just watched the WAR one and it is indeed great. It's kinda strange seeing Tenryu go 50/50 with Flair after seeing him clobber dudes bigger than Flair, but they had some pretty great chemistry together.
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Post by elliott on Aug 6, 2019 12:40:38 GMT -5
Yeah. In another universe the Flair vs Tenryu match Flair was pushing for at Starrcade 88 or 89 happened and was amazing. But that WAR match is spectacular.
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Post by elliott on Sept 11, 2019 3:31:01 GMT -5
Best Tenryu singles match other than 6/5/89?
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Post by bossrock on Sept 11, 2019 5:52:20 GMT -5
vs. Hansen 7/27/1988 vs. Hansen 9/3/1988 vs. Hashimoto 8/1/1998 vs. Mutoh 6/8/2001 vs. Kojima 7/17/2002 vs. KENTA 10/8/2005
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Post by KB8 on Sept 11, 2019 7:11:00 GMT -5
The 8/8/93 Hashimoto match blew me away more than ever before when I watched it again a few months ago, so I'd maybe lean there. But then I've never seen their '94 match and haven't watched the '98 matches in over ten years (and remember nothing about them now), so 8/8/93 might not even be the best Tenryu/Hashimoto singles match.
The Kawada match from October 2000 is another one that'd have a shot.
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