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Post by elliott on Dec 8, 2017 20:00:35 GMT -5
Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (Retirement Match - WWF WrestleMania VII - 03/24/91) Another one of those, I'm not sure what to say. Everyone has seen it a million times and has a strong opinion on it. I'm on the "this shit is perfect you heartless scoundrels!" side. Has to be nominated.
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Post by Cap on Dec 9, 2017 16:00:09 GMT -5
Second
This match will probably make my list on the strength of the post-match alone. This was Warrior with his working boots on and Savage out there having an all time performance. This set the bar for the WWE epic and so few matches have come close to that bar.
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Post by stunninggrover on Jan 4, 2018 21:26:55 GMT -5
Legendary match. One of Savage's all-time great performances, carrying the Warrior to perhaps his greatest match. The post-match stuff was tremendous. It definitely has a shot at making it to my top 100.
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Post by maddog1981 on Jan 4, 2018 21:28:07 GMT -5
Yes, absolutely amazing match. Probably best narrative told through a match ever.
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Post by Grimmas on Jan 5, 2018 0:00:59 GMT -5
To me the worst five star match in history. I love it and it will make my list.
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Post by Cap on Aug 16, 2018 11:53:08 GMT -5
From my rewatch project on 8/16/2018
Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (Retirement Match – 3/24/1991) Current Rank: 80 Trending: Up and Even and Down (I’ll Explain) I said it before and I will say it again, if you don’t get emotional during the post match here you aren’t a fucking human, you don’t like wrestling, and I don’t want you in my life. This is in the conversation for greatest all time single performance from Savage. Warrior pulls his weight, but this is the Randy Savage show. He carries Warrior to a class match and works his ass off doing it. He executes; he tells a story; and finally he tugs at the heart strings. This gets a few bonus points for being historically significant, not in that it retired Savage, clearly it didn’t, but in that it is arguably the genesis of the WWE Main Event style, a style that would go on to dominate the American wrestling landscape. Watching this match with these other high-stakes match I came away with an elevated opinion of it on the whole. In that, my opinion of the match is on the rise. I don’t like to dwell on star ratings (and I already have too much here), but it may help make this point. I have always thought of this as one of the top 3-4 matches that I have at 4.75. Even though it is on the rise, it isn’t quite enough to bump it to 5. I feel securing this match being a sort of gatekeeper. In turn, I sort of wind up breaking even on the list because it is already one of my top rated non-5 star matches. Now for the real tragedy, I actually suspect this will fall a bit as I watch more stuff for this project. There are still some small blind spots to jump into still and some stuff I haven’t watched in far too long. So in the end, I think I like this match more than ever, but it wasn’t quite enough to move the needle on it, and in turn it might actually lose some ground. However, there is a 0% chance this ever gets bumped off my list. Its too great, too important, and too beautiful for that.
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Post by KB8 on Dec 3, 2018 20:21:40 GMT -5
I’ll never not love this. It’s by no means perfect and I’d understand if someone didn’t even think it was particularly good, but it’s about the best example of WWF theatre I can think of
C&P/TLDR version:
One of the best pieces of melodramatic pro-wrestling soap opera nonsense ever done, from pre-match to post-match and everything in between. This just feels like a huge deal from the very start. Warrior eschewing his usual sprint to the ring for a deliberate walk, the tentative beginning, the crowd heat -- it's big time. Savage was amazing in this, to the point where it feels like one of the best performances ever in a WWF ring. You know he's responsible for the layout, which was great, but it was everything else he did that ruled, all the little touches and movements. His reactions to Warrior shrugging off blows, spitting on him out of belligerence, the way he bides his time and capitalises on Sherri's interference. He fought like a man whose career was really on the line, even trying the throat across the barricade spot that he used to injure Steamboat way back, which was an awesome callback. Warrior isn't great or anything, but I thought he held up his end fine, even if he was still only the third best participant in the match. I loved the bit where he caught Savage coming off the top and just dismissively stood him up and slapped him. It was one of those matches where even he, this nutcase from another universe who talks to space deities, saw the gravity of the situation. Warrior kicking out of the multiple elbow drops annoys some people and I get that, but the way it happened here didn't bother me if for no reason other than it led to wild beady-eyed Randy Savage facial expressions. Warrior making his comeback and hitting the gorilla press and big splash...only for Savage to kick out; it was like your modern day WWE epic, except fresh and organic. Plus that leads to Warrior asking Kang and Kodos for guidance, threatening to walk out because his gods have abandoned him in his greatest moment of need, and that is legit one of my favourite spots in any match ever. It's completely ridiculous and goofy as anything, but I love it. I also loved how Savage jumping him only served to piss Warrior off, snapping him out of his trance and giving him the sign he needed. His gods hadn't left him. It was just their way of telling him his job wasn't done yet. Trial by adversity! Or, you know, whatever. AND I've always loved the finish. It's a moment that's stuck with me ever since I was a kid. I remember watching it and just being flabbergasted that Warrior was so casual about it. The way he hits the shoulder tackles, Savage completely dead on his feet, one foot on the chest, arms raised, back on top of the mountain. Then of course there's the post-match, which has one of the most iconic moments in WWF history. Sherri, who was a phenomenal she-devil all match, puts the boots to Savage while even Heenan thinks it's all a bit too much ("Sherri, come on, he tried his best!"). All the stuff with Elizabeth, grown-ass adults weeping in the crowd, it's Vince's perfect vision of sports entertainment. And on this night he nailed it all ends up.
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Post by elliott on Dec 4, 2018 22:35:41 GMT -5
Disagree with Kb8. This is perfect.
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Post by superstarsleeze on Jan 20, 2019 17:51:19 GMT -5
I wrote so much about this. I think you can argue that this is the greatest match ever. It will probably end up at around 50 for me but honestly I think I have 50 number one contenders. I think this is the pinnacle of Vince's vision of Pro Wrestling transcending the idea of just being a worked sporting contest and a truly emotionally moving experience. Even though I knew it was coming I still cried when Liz hops over the barricade. In a completely different way, this is the pinnacle of Randy Savage's vision of Pro Wrestling as a pre-planned cinematic classic. Liberal use of Sherri really her should be included in the title she worked her ass off and is every bit Part of this match. From the Five Elbows to the Warrior Splash to the talking to the hands to the real finish this is a cinematic masterpiece. That's why this could be a number one it is so influential on today's Main Event style. "Im sorry I love you" comes from here. For better or worse, it all started here. The post-match is the greatest moment in wrestling history. I think I talked myself into number one or did I?
"Macho Man" Randy Savage w/Sherri vs Ultimate Warrior - Wrestlemania VII Career Match
Even though, I have seen it a zillion times and I knew it was coming, they still got me. It was right when Liz hopped over the barricade, it was like I was in the dustiest room imaginable. It wasnt the embrace or putting her on the shoulder because I knew all that was coming. I had forgotten about the rope holding spot. I just had a good cry. Greatest moment in pro wrestling history. I am not even sure it is close. For a moment to consistently make me cry just shows the incredible power.
I have reviewed over 1800 matches at this point. I breakdown these matches logically really going into the minutia of what works and why it works. To me, the best matches are not for critical thinking. They are not the matches that appease the mind. They are the matches that make you feel. That move you. That hit you in the gut and tug on the heartstrings. Thats why this match is ***** all the way and I honestly think any rating less than that is severely underrating the match. As so many others have pointed out the Randy Savage & Miss Elizabeth story arc from Wrestlemania II to Wrestlemania VIII is incredible. What makes it so good you dont even have to see the intervening moments. You can just watch those seven matches and you get the complete story of a man that is loaded with character development, action, twists & turns and ultimately the feel good ending of him winning the WWF Title from Ric Flair. The climax of that story is right here at Wrestlemania VII. After the jealous explosion at Wrestlemania V and Elizabeth getting a modicum of revenge with the help of the American Dream at Wrestlemania VI, this is where it all comes to a head. The Macho Man vs The Ultimate Warrior where one man's career will be over.
I think you can assert that this is the most influential match of all time, at the very least the most influential WrestleMania match on other WrestleMania main events. "I'm sorry, I love you" comes right from this playbook. Now, it is not even WrestleMania main events but many WWE matches and indy matches that incorporate this style of cinematic storytelling. This is not an original thought many have picked up on the fact that Shawn Michaels popularized the style, BUT it was the Macho Man Randy Savage who innovated it. This is the pinnacle of Randy Savage's vision as a storytelling. To me this is the biggest reason, Vince McMahon loved Randy Savage so much is that they shared the very same vision of what pro wrestling could be. It could be a entertainment platform that truly captures every aspect of humanity. Vince loves moments. Pro wrestling even though it is a dynamic sport, Vince saw the value in distilling it into static images. I dont think there is a more powerful image than Randy hoisting Elizabeth on his shoulder. To me that is the pinnacle of Vince McMahon's vision of pro wrestling. Love is the most human experience. It is often sorely lacking in pro wrestling and even all these years later there is no greater love story.
Am I ever going to talk about this match? The match sees Randy Savage in full Memphis heel mode and Ultimate Warrior is in stalking avenging angel mode. Warrior was very careful not to blow up during this match. His movements were all measured and never wasted. He understood the moment and it could be explained in kayfabe that he was cautious given the stakes of the match. Normally, I dont include the managers in the title of the match, but this was effectively a handicap match and Sherri worked OVERTIME in this match. She was every bit a part of this match as Savage and Warrior. They established pretty early on that Savage was outgunned by the bigger & stronger Warrior so it would take a team effort to take him down. Savage loves the spot where his opponent chokes him and lifts him high up in the air, but this time he is thrown into Sherri. They tried many distraction tactics but they all failed against Warrior who was laser-focused in this match. Warrior was absorbing the punishment and returning it tenfold. Warrior was basically playing King of the Jungle carved out the center of the ring while Savage and Sherri were two hyenas trying to dislodge him. Try as they might, they were always thwarted. Warrior was very static. Savage and Sherri were supplying the energy: bumping 'n' running. One really impressive spot that I had forgotten about was when Warrior caught the Macho Man in his arms on a top rope crossbody. Then set him down and slapped him, the ultimate sign of disrespect.
I loved that both transitions to Macho Man offense were because of Warrior leaving his feet. Warrior had the game plan of letting Savage come to him and then counterattacking, but twice Warrior went for big shouldertackles and missed. He deviated from the gameplan and had to pay for it. Sherri was brutal on the outside. You could argue that Sherri actually got more offense on Warrior than Savage did! Neither heat segment lasted all that long as the Warrior was simply too strong. Eventually one Sherri's distraction tactics paid off and Savage dropped Warrior throat first on the ropes. Some really good selling from the Warrior choking. Savage did his famous snap his opponent's head over top rope as he jumps to the floor. Savage was so damn good in this match and so was Sherri.
At this point, Savage drops the FIVE Top Rope Elbows and this is when it kicks into cinematic territory. That is such an insane number especially since one usually gets the job done. Then Warrior KICKS OUT! What I love about his match is that it is not just about Savage/Sherri/Elizabeth they give some room for Warrior to have character development. Remember, Warrior defeated Hogan at the previous WrestleMania, yes Savage cost him the WWF title at Royal Rumble, BUT the Warrior had NOT faced real adversity in match before. So when Warrior runs this his usual comeback complete with the Press Slam/Warrior Splash AND The Macho Man kicks out, that became a moment when we could learn a lot about the Warrior. Warrior showed vulnerability unaccustomed to a WWF babyface at the time. He looked up to the Heavens and wondered what he needed to do. He started talking to his hands and he realized that he might not have what it takes to get it done. Warrior was going to walk out on the WWF downtrodden if it was not for Savage's hubris attacking the Warrior. Sherri held Warrior for Savage to come crashing down on Warrior as he was on the railing. Warrior shoved Sherri and Savage took that bump chin-first on the steel railing. That was a nasty, nasty bump. He really threw himself into it. Macho Man had pretty much knocked himself out and was a victim of his own pride & greed. Warrior hits three King-Sized Shouldertackles that Savage sold beautifully. Then in emphatic fashion, Warrior, King of the Jungle, but one foot on the chest of the Macho Man and won the match 1-2-3!
I love it all! All the gaga with Macho Man & Sherri trying every nefarious trick in the book to beat the Warrior. I loved Warrior's controlled anger. He was focused and here to win. Then the finish run starting with the FIVE Elbow Drops, Warrior Splash->Kickout->Warrior Self-Doubt, Savage eating the steel, Warrior's one foot cover is one of the most perfect endings to a pro wrestling match. Is it a technical marvel? Of course not! Thats missing the point. The match itself is an amazing roller coaster ride and then add in the greatest post-match in the history of pro wrestling, it is an iconic match that is the pinnacle of Vince McMahon's & Randy Savage's story telling and continues to influence pro wrestling to this day. *****
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Post by mvz on Nov 11, 2021 12:45:43 GMT -5
It looks this match is not wanting for advocates but after rewatching it, it is the one match that gives me goosebumps every single time. Top notch storytelling from beginning to end.
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Post by elliott on Nov 11, 2021 19:26:47 GMT -5
If someone put this #1 I'd love it.
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Post by [Darren] on Nov 11, 2021 19:39:32 GMT -5
I’ve considered it. It’s the only wrestling match that brings me to tears.
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Post by club on Mar 21, 2022 5:48:48 GMT -5
As others have said this is the pinnacle of WWF melodrama wrestling. The match itself is good - a near miracle given Warrior's in it - but this era of WWF wasn't really about great in-ring as much as it was about great drama. This is a story of redemption and it hits me on a gut level every time. It straddles the divide between cartoon and real like nothing else from WWF. Savage has to loose his career to regain what is truly important, and yeah I cry every time.
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Post by puropotsy on Jun 11, 2023 19:57:42 GMT -5
Well I’m glad I watched this. It’s better than Warrior vs Hogan. It had some great work including Savage doing the five elbowdrops and Warrior kicking out only for Savage to kick out of the press slam and splash. Then the finish which came after the weird segment of Warrior praying to the anabolic gods. But the post-match is one of the greatest segments of all time. I had memories of the weird kid with the mushroom hat crying but it seemed liked everyone else was as well. A great match with an epic post-match. Won’t make my list.
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