|
Post by elliott on Oct 19, 2019 17:08:44 GMT -5
I thought it might be good to have a thread on commentators. Who are the best? Who are your favorites if different from the best? Who is underrated? Who is overrated? How important is it? What are some examples (if any) of commentators making matches better than they would be without them? What are some examples (if any) of commentators making matches worse than they would be without them?
|
|
|
Post by bossrock on Oct 19, 2019 18:25:25 GMT -5
Two of my favorite commentary teams in recent memory are Michael Cole and JBL during the latter's brief retirement in the mid to late 2000's and Tom Phillips and Corey Graves in NXT. Two teams that had great chemistry and banter (especially the latter). I know a lot of people hate Monsoon's work, but I always enjoyed his banter with Ventura and Heenan.
I HATE three-person commentary booths. There's really no reason for more than two people and sometimes (such as the case of Lance Russel) one person. The third commentator just feels like also-ran third wheel who rarely offers anything meaningful (although I have been enjoying the JR, Excalibur, and Schiavone team in AEW).
In terms of favorite calls in matches, I think Michael Cole in the Mania 30 main event takes the top spot for me. He really captured the roller coaster of emotions that was the Daniel Bryan saga. And while I think his work has aged a bit, I still love a lot of JR's soundbites from the 90's and early 2000's. "There's people in there!", "Make yourself famous kid!" and his berating of Vince in the Shawn Michaels Mania match remain some of my favorites.
In terms of the best, even as someone who isn't the biggest Memphis fan I think it has to be Lance Russell. He was straightforward in his approach but always sounded so professional and natural.
|
|
|
Post by KB8 on Oct 19, 2019 18:49:48 GMT -5
Heenan is as big a part of the 92 Royal Rumble being so much fun as anybody else involved, including Flair. I know that's probably the boring pick for a "best calls of a match ever" topic, but it is what it is. A full hour of Heenan being Heenan at his very best.
Lance is the GOAT to me. I can also still listen to most peak JR, including Attitude Era JR and be just fine with it, probably because I grew up on a lot of it and I guess I'll always have a nostalgia-infused soft spot for it. Same goes for a lot of Gorilla, especially with Heenan, as those two were such a huge part of my earliest years as a wrestling fan.
|
|
|
Post by tetsujin on Oct 19, 2019 19:19:32 GMT -5
I'm gonna be that guy. I don't understand a single world but in terms of emotion nothing comes close to Fukuzawa and other 90s AJPW commentators.
|
|
|
Post by microstatistics on Oct 20, 2019 17:16:27 GMT -5
I know Elliott is not a fan (to say the least), but to me JR is the GOAT. He wasn't the same after 2008 and his New Japan/AEW stuff isn't the best but his peak stuff is untouchable. JR-Lawler is my favorite combo. Lance Russell is pretty great too.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Oct 20, 2019 20:18:55 GMT -5
Heenan is as big a part of the 92 Royal Rumble being so much fun as anybody else involved, including Flair. I know that's probably the boring pick for a "best calls of a match ever" topic, but it is what it is. A full hour of Heenan being Heenan at his very best. Lance is the GOAT to me. I can also still listen to most peak JR, including Attitude Era JR and be just fine with it, probably because I grew up on a lot of it and I guess I'll always have a nostalgia-infused soft spot for it. Same goes for a lot of Gorilla, especially with Heenan, as those two were such a huge part of my earliest years as a wrestling fan. Its like saying Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball player ever. It may be "boring" but it is definitely still the right pick. In terms of a commentator "making a match better" as much as Ross annoys me a lot of the time, his calls of some of Luger's late 80s matches might actually fall into this category. Overall my #1 is another boring pick. Its Lance Russell for all of the reasons. Some other folks I really enjoy are Frank Bonnema from Portland, Dave Brown, Hugo Savinovich, Dusty, Kent Walton and Bob Caudle. I should make a token Tony Schiavone and David Crockett are highly underrated point because I always do and they were. Obviously MNW era Tony was awful but he was good before that. I really like the Tony & Dusty, Tony & Jesse, Tony & Bobby teams. I agree with bossrock about 3 man teams. I think it worked in WCW when Tenay would be a guest commentator during crusierweight matches but thats all I could come up with.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Oct 20, 2019 20:20:43 GMT -5
As far as commentators making a match worse, Joey Styles might be the biggest obstacle to watching ECW in bulk.
|
|
|
Post by tetsujin on Oct 21, 2019 4:13:54 GMT -5
I don't know if you guys know spanish, but if you did, you would enjoy FAR LESS the lucha stuff. Their commentators are freaking annoying.
|
|
|
Post by KB8 on Oct 21, 2019 10:53:39 GMT -5
As far as commentators making a match worse, Joey Styles might be the biggest obstacle to watching ECW in bulk. I can't stand Styles. Maybe if you were following along at the time then it's easier to go back through the ECW footage and tolerate him (I never watched ECW when it was still around - not sure how often it was even shown over here - and only kept up to date through the wrestling magazines), though there are enough folk who were at least paying attention at the time who still think he's terrible. I know commentators siding with the babyfaces over the heels is common enough, but there were a bunch of instances going through that '96 Yearbook where he was ridiculous with it (on top of all his usual snarky horse shit). The worst instance was probably during a Dreamer/Beulah v Douglas/Francine mixed tag match where he was was loving Dreamer's application of the "vaginal claw" (Dreamer basically grabs Francine by the hoohah) and then a piledriver, but when Douglas hit the belly-to-belly on Beulah he was a disgusting son of a bitch. It's like, either be cool with all of it or none of it. Plus he's just annoying as fuck, and it meant that even when he was toned down and generally tolerable I was always waiting for him to do something irritating. Kind of like how I imagine a lot of folk are with Ranallo today.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Oct 21, 2019 15:41:33 GMT -5
I don't know if you guys know spanish, but if you did, you would enjoy FAR LESS the lucha stuff. Their commentators are freaking annoying. Japanese speakers have said the same thing about Fukuzawa's high pitched cartoonish screeching.
|
|
|
Post by bossrock on Oct 21, 2019 17:25:22 GMT -5
It's funny because a lot of the criticisms WWE commentators receive these days such as relying on buzz words and phrases have often been the same criticisms thrown at NJPW's current commentators.
|
|
|
Post by bossrock on Oct 21, 2019 17:27:56 GMT -5
As far as current commentators who actively take away from a match, it has to be Mauro Ranallo in a landslide. I enjoyed his work on SDL as he was knowledgeable, could call moves accurately, and made matches feel important with the amount of energy and passion he brought to the table. But he eventually became a parody of himself with frequent pop culture references and melodrama on top of melodrama.
|
|
|
Post by tetsujin on Oct 21, 2019 17:43:20 GMT -5
I don't know if you guys know spanish, but if you did, you would enjoy FAR LESS the lucha stuff. Their commentators are freaking annoying. Japanese speakers have said the same thing about Fukuzawa's high pitched cartoonish screeching. I know. But I don't speak japanese, so he works for me.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Oct 21, 2019 17:59:45 GMT -5
Same re: several Lucha commentators.
|
|
|
Post by Cap on Oct 21, 2019 19:15:42 GMT -5
Dope topic. A few random notes while I have a minute.
People I Like/Love
To me Monsoon and Heenan are the greatest team of all time and I admit that 85% of it is probably nostalgia. Their voices are the voices of my wrestling childhood and so even when I go back they are the team I always enjoy the most. I do think they had great chemistry and I like their energy level, especially for the time period. Heenan translated pretty well just about everywhere. I don't think everyone worked well with him, but I think he was pretty good to great (probably the best at his highest moments) wherever he went. I know Monsoon gets on some people's nerves, but he struck me as pretty in line with the 80s sports commentators of the time.
I think JR and WCW was really good and he was hit or miss during what a lot of people think of his prime in WWE. Since that time its generally more miss for me, but I don't think he has been bad in AEW. In turn, I sort of see him existing in three phases (1. serious sports commentator trying to tell the story 2. attitude era moment maker 3. cranky old man who is trying to not sound too disconnected from the product). JR during the attitude (and even int he WWF a little before that) was great in moments and was pretty good at holding consistent stories together and he was making chicken salad out of chicken shit a lot of the time. I don't think he was as consistent. He just didn't do it for me. Honestly, it was probably more being paired with Lawler, who I find insufferable. Early JR was deceptively good at getting guys over. I think he was better in that regard early in his career than during his main run int he WWF/E.
I also really love Lance Russell. I didn't grow up with him, but I really enjoy him. He feels like a genuine wrestling fan that is walking us through the story.
I think two of my favorites from today are Excalibur and Nigel. Both of them genuinely love wrestling, genuinely follow and have knowledge about wrestling and wrestling history, are students of the modern product beyond their promotions, and I think they convey that better than just about anyone. They aren't overly energetic, they don't get too cute, they just provide context and help string the narratives of the match and the larger story together.
Tony Schiavone was never a guy I loved in WCW. I thought he went out of his way to bury people or be contrarian to other members of the team, but I think he is an absolute revelation on AEW. He has been the glue that holds that team together I think. Excalibur is great and JR seems genuinely motivated, but there was a bit of a disconnect for me until Schiavone got there.
People I Don't Like
Lawler is my all time least favorite. I'd admit that teenage me didn't mind him as much at the time, but i was never a fan. Now, I find him hard to listen to. Even toned down, pass.
I know Ventura is pretty popular, but I don't like him. I get that some folks like that he points out the logical inconsistencies and all that, but I hate it. It feels like he makes everyone look like assholes for no good reason.
I really liked Cory Graves in NXT. I thought he was nuanced and pretty good about telling a story and putting people over (even in criticizing them). Now he feels like he took my least favorite parts of Lawler (being a perv) and Ventura (burying folks) and put it in a skinny suit. Not my cup of tea.
|
|