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Post by microstatistics on Dec 13, 2019 22:05:52 GMT -5
We got Fujinami/Flair. Here is another best of the 80s pair. Memphis vs. Mexico.
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Post by elliott on Dec 15, 2019 14:07:22 GMT -5
Cap's Categories:
Top Matches – My gut told me Satanico by a hair, then I remembered like 4 more great Satanico matches and I was like “Ok, Satanico.” Then I looked at my last GME ballot and Lawler had more matches on it. So then I started thinking about Lawler matches. And just. Fucking draw. These two have top 5s, 10s, 50s, and 100s that could compete with any other wrestler. In terms of number of great matches and number of absolute tippy top tier matches, these two might be 1 & 2 ever for me. I’m going with Satanico. I’ll go Satanico by the slimmest of margin. This was like overtime Game 7, 100-99 close.
Versatility – Jesus. These are all going to be draws, aren’t they? I guess Satanico because he was a more compelling grappler. Obviously they’re both all time great brawlers. But I’ve never seen Satanico work something like the King Kong Bundy match. Or the Andy Kaufman matches. Or…well you get the picture. But its not like Lawler didn’t have awesome technical matches against people like Harley Race, Jack Brisco, Nick Bockwinkel and Rick Martel. Both guys really excelled in every type of situation and setting I’ve ever seen them in. I’m sticking with Satanico here though.
Consistency – FUCK. These two were consistently good-all time great for literally 4 decades. Draw. I hate this.
Charisma/"It" Factor" – This is killing whatever is left of my soul. I was going to give this to Satanico because I think he’s one of the best actors in wrestling and has maybe the best facial expressions… But Lawler transcended wrestling in the Memphis territory in a way not many wrestlers ever did so I’ve gotta go Lawler.
Promos – Doesn’t count. Lawler is the best promo ever though.
Elevating Others – I’ll go with Lawler because he had more all time great matches with guys I never saw have all time great matches with other people. Like I love Bill Dundee, but I haven’t seen Bill Dundee have another all time great match outside of the like 7 he had with Lawler. Ditto for Dutch Mantell. Or Austin Idol. What other classic did King Kong Bundy have? Bigelow?
Offense – I know people think Lawler was all punches but he had multiple slams & suplexes, atomic drop, the greatest piledriver ever. He’d even come off the top with a legdrop. And of course the punches. His offense wasn’t outstanding, but it was good for the era. Same with Satanico really. Good, solid. Not spectacular, but he knew his limitations, didn’t try stuff he couldn’t do, and knew how to use his offense to maximum effect. Satanico also had all time great punches. I’d pick Satanico here because the senton is one of my favorite spots ever in general and he would do that shit from all angles. Additionally his luchawiki page includes “Low Blow” as one of his signature spots and he once ripped El Dandy’s armpit hair out and blew it up in the air. I never saw Lawler do that. Although…Lawler would absolutely thrown fire and powder in people’s eyes, once used a ketchup bottle as a weapon and would absolutely build a match around using a foreign object that didn’t actually exist. And Satanico never did any of those things. UGGGGGGH. FUCK. Draw.
Selling – I’ll say Satanico because he has the best facial expressions ever. But this could otherwise be a draw.
Rewatch Valley – Again these are like my 1 & 2 most watched guys ever. Draw. UGH.
Bonus Elliott's Question (Brody vs Nigel or best work associated with a crappy wrestler) I’ll go with Lawler here on the strength of his match with rookie Bigelow and just having to get saddled with so many non-wrestlers, fake monsters, and just crappy people over the years.
Satanico - 3
Lawler – 3
Draw – 3
Hahahaa. I didn’t mean for that to happen. Terry Funk is my GOAT, but these guys are likely #2 and 3. Literally every category could have been a draw here.
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Post by Cap on Jan 16, 2020 13:07:00 GMT -5
I am going to be honest. I am probably not intimately familiar with the totality of either man’s career to really fairly do this comparison, but I have seen a fair amount from both men and have seen most of their top matches. Top MatchesThis one is really close. They both have a lot of great matches, both have two on my list and a few just outside. Satanico’s matches tend to come in just a notch higher for me though. I think over the past few years I have become more bullish on Satanico matches and slightly less so on Lawler. If we had an unclipped version of the ’85 LLT match things might change here, but right now Satanico wins this by the slimmest of margins Winner: Satanico VersatilityThis one feels just a touch easier to me. Lawler was deceptively versatile in my opinion. He was able to get a lot out of just about anyone he stepped in the ring with (including an actor with… lets say “limited”… wrestling experience), but Satanico could have a bloody brawl one night and turn around and put on a grappling clinic the next. Gotta go with Satanico. Winner: Satanico ConsistencyUgh… this one is tough. It probably has to be a draw. I am not sure I have seen really actively bad wrestling from either, at least in their relative primes. They are both solid as a rock wrestelrs. Winner: Draw Charisma/”It” FactorAnother tough one. On one hand Lawler was as big a star as one could imagine given his market. On the other hand I think Satanico is one of the more digestible and translatable luchadors of his era. As Elliot said, his acting is really good and he emotes so well. I am going to give this to Satanico I think. They both were clearly charismatic, so its just a matter of how that charisma resonates with me and Satanico takes it by a hair because I probably have more investment in lucha than I do in Memphis. Winner: Satanico PromosCan’t really do this one. If I were just thinking about the 80s I might just give it to Lawler for being so good and conncting to the crowd in such a profound way. If I were just looking at sort of WWE commentary Lawler I’d give it to Satanico because few people have done more to sour me on them by being at a commentary booth than Lawler. I’ll call it a draw. Winner: Draw/No Contest Elevating OthersFor all the reasons Elliott mentioned, I have to give this one to Lawler. The list of guys who’s best matches came against Lawler is pretty long. He was a star maker. Winner: Lawler OffenseElliott is right in pointing out that Lawler is probably unfairly criticized for being too limited. He had an ok arsenal of weapnons. That said… I think Satanico’s arsenal was just a touch bigger. Satanico had at least as good an aray of brawling weapons and then you add his grappling…. Yeah. Winner: Satanico SellingThis one is tough. Satanico does emote really well and his facial expressions are top notch. He sells a war as well as anyone. Lawler is about as good as it gets at the fine details of selling the beating he is taking. This one feels like a draw to me. Winner: Draw Rewatch Value If you asked me this question two years ago I probably would have said Lawler, but now I think it might be Satanico. More variety in terms of style of matches, more matches that I rate just a hair higher, and more personal favorites. Winner: Satanico Elliott’s Bonus Question (Brody/Nigel or Best Work Associated with a Bad Wrestler)Only one of these guys has canonical work associated with not just a bad wrestler, a none wrestler. Andy Kauffman was a comic genius, but Lawler did all the heavy lifting when it came to the wrestling parts (in and out of the ring) Winner: Lawler. Final Count Satanico: 5 Lawler: 1.5 Draws: 3
The result is misleading. This is far closer than it looks in my head. Satanico just edged a number of categories out.
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