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Post by elliott on Jan 11, 2020 13:58:00 GMT -5
Who was better in 2004 - 2005, Eddie Guerrero or Samo Joe? If you want to push Eddie's time back to November 2003 to make up for time missed due to dying, that'd be fine.
Otherwise, have at it!
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Post by kas on Jan 11, 2020 17:34:19 GMT -5
This is a really tough one. I'd say Eddie for '04 and Joe for '05 and Joe overall, as I think his '05 was better than Eddie's '04
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Post by elliott on Jan 12, 2020 5:38:43 GMT -5
I know everyone loves this era of Joe, but im still surprised.
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Post by Cap on Jan 12, 2020 14:46:08 GMT -5
Man... this is tough. I'm going to have to ponder this a bit.
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Post by bossrock on Jan 12, 2020 14:59:29 GMT -5
Eddie was great but Joe was probably the best in the world.
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Post by tetsujin on Jan 12, 2020 19:22:35 GMT -5
Not only that, but those two Joe years are part of what I think is a contender for best peak of any wrestler ever, imho. Don't think the same can be said about Eddie's, though he still had amazing matches and consistency and he was more popular than ever. But still, Joe was having the best night of his career every single night. Dude was the perfect wrestler.
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Post by elliott on Jan 12, 2020 22:01:22 GMT -5
Eddie finished 12th overall during GWE. What do people see as his peak?
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Post by KB8 on Jan 13, 2020 12:27:48 GMT -5
I think you could argue Eddie had two peaks. That heel run in'97 being the first, then this '04-'05 run his second (obviously cut short due to his death). If I had to pick one, though, then it's the latter.
I like Joe and re-watched a whole bunch of his ROH run for a best of the 00s poll a few years back. He was pretty excellent during these couple years, but I don't like him quite as much as a few folk here. I'd actually argue it was Eddie who was the best in the world in 2005. The Rey feud got goofy as fuck with the Dominic stuff, but Eddie becoming more and more paranoid and crazy from match to match is some of the best stuff I've ever seen in wrestling. I think his performance in the Smackdown! match is as good as basically any wrestler's ever had. He probably didn't have as many great matches that year as Joe, but - and I know this'll sound like a cop out - you sort of expect that with Joe working in a promotion whose ideology was based largely on having great matches every time out (I guess it's maybe a wee bit similar to the whole "Arn Anderson never had the same opportunities to have great matches as _____" that Arn fans will sometimes go to (myself included)). I don't like Joe's best performance that year as much as the third best performance of Eddie.
'04 I could probably go either way on, though I'd guess much of the argument for Joe that year is the Punk feud and I don't love the first match and don't even like the second one (third one is awesome). I like the Aries match where he drops the belt and that cage match where he murders Jay Briscoe is a great Joe performance. But I like the Eddie/Rey and Eddie/Big Show matches from Smackdown! more than any of those Joe matches.
I don't think it's a walk by any stretch, but I'm someone who thinks that two year run from Eddie actually IS up there as an all-timer, and I'm probably not as high on Joe's run as others.
(also I may be biased?)
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Post by microstatistics on Jan 13, 2020 20:48:41 GMT -5
I'd say in 2004, Eddie was the best in the world with Joe a close 2nd (or 3rd or 4th with Kobashi and Tamura also in the mix). But, for me, 2005 Joe > 2005 Eddie pretty comfortably so Joe takes it. Great question.
For me, Eddie's absolute peak was 1994-97. He had many of his best matches in that time period and showed off his versatility, working in a lot of different places and playing several roles.
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Post by elliott on Jan 18, 2020 2:39:56 GMT -5
I went with Eddie, and its a no-brainer for me. It shouldn't surprise anyone that I'm not a big Joe fan. He just doesn't resonate with me in the slightest. KB8's point here is really strong:
I don't consider this a cop out at all. To me it is a very legitimate point.
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Post by Cap on Jan 20, 2020 17:56:07 GMT -5
Yeah, I am also going with Eddie. To me this is peak Eddie and I think of Eddie as the best all around peak wrestler ever maybe. When Eddie Guerrero is at his best, there probably isn't anyone I would rather watch as far as a total package wrestler. Joe probably did have more big, highly rated matches, but Eddie had his fair share and I am higher on much of Guerrero's work during this time than most. Additionally, while I think Joe was great during the time, Eddie was elevating EVERYONE he worked with and EVERY program he was involved in. He got some of Angle's best work out of him. He got one Brock's best matches from his first run (maybe his best). No need to rehash the miracle of a match and feud he got out of JBL (I've done that elsewhere). He also got a custody battle feud over with Rey over; and look, Rey is fantastic in the ring, but Eddie made that feud work in the promos. I love Joe and he had an all time run, but this two year stretch from Eddie was about as good as any to me.
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Post by KB8 on Jan 20, 2020 20:11:38 GMT -5
I somehow forgot the Brock and JBL matches when I did the 2004 head to head for Eddie and Joe. The Brock match didn't hold up as being truly amazing the last time I watched it (still really enjoyable), but the three big matches from the JBL feud are great and the Judgment Day match is an absolute all-timer. If we're comparing those three Eddie/JBL matches to the three Joe/Punk matches I'd probably have the third best Eddie/JBL match on par with the best Joe/Punk. So yeah, I'd go with Eddie pretty comfortably for that year.
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Post by elliott on Jan 25, 2020 3:58:43 GMT -5
Who had better matches with Angle?
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Post by KB8 on Jan 25, 2020 11:20:28 GMT -5
I think I've only seen the first Joe/Angle match and that was at the time. I don't remember anything about it at this point. It's been about a decade since I've watched any of the Eddie/Angle matches but I liked the Wrestlemania and Summerslam ones from 2004. They didn't feel as typically Angle and I remember thinking Eddie took him out of his comfort zone a bit. The matwork felt much more gritty than basically any other Kurt Angle matwork.
So Eddie.
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Post by bossrock on Jan 25, 2020 14:51:33 GMT -5
The only one I've seen recently was the Angle Summerslam match for Eddie. It was a really fun, compact match with a ton of urgency. Angle throwing in the Angle Slam as early as he did was kinda weird, but overall was a really good match.
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