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Post by elliott on Jan 20, 2020 2:02:14 GMT -5
Who is better, Randy Savage or Mick Foley? Two of the biggest stars in wrestling history.
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Post by Cap on Jan 21, 2020 20:02:10 GMT -5
This is going to be a tough one I think. Two of my all time favorites that have really strong arguments for greatness.
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Post by elliott on Jan 26, 2020 5:11:27 GMT -5
This is absurd. I promise not to make all of the answers draws.
Top Matches - Fuck I shouldn't have made that promise. This has to be the hardest category. Both have several matches that are stone cold locks or at least deserving of serious consideration. Looking at a side by side comparison
Dude Love/Austin vs Savage/Warrior
Mankind/Michaels vs Savage/Steamboat WM 3
Cactus/Payne/Nasty Boys vs Savage/Lawler/Bundy/Rude
Cactus/Sullivan/Nasty Boys vs Savage/Lanny/RnR Express
Cactus/HHH Rumble vs Savage/Lawler LLT
Cactus/Sabu 94 vs Savage/Flair 95
Cactus/Funk 1/95 vs Savage/Flair 92
Cactus/Sting vs Savage/Tenryu
Foley/Orton vs Savage/Steamboat 2/87
It is insane. Its like a wash across the fucking board for me. I'm going Foley by the slimmest of margins. Chads were hanging all over the place.
Versatility - Savage. Foley was more versatile than given credit for, but it was basically what level of brawl are we going to get from him. Savage has the insane violent brawls, but also has top tier spectacles and workrate matches.
Consistency - I'm going with Foley but I blame Eric Bischoff for it.
Charisma/"It" Factor" - Savage. I can't honestly think of anyone I'd feel good about putting above him. His peers here are the prime versions of Hogan, Rock, Flair, and Austin.
Promos - Fuck it. Savage.
Elevating Others - I said it in another thread but this is really Foley's legacy. Made Rock, HHH, Orton, had Sting's first acclaimed non-Flair matches, Taker's first acclaimed matches, etc etc.
Offense - Savage. Easily.
Selling - Savage. Easily.
Rewatch Valley - Foley. I went with Foley because when I watched a bunch of his best shit recently, I was surprised by how well it held up. Stuff like the Nasty boys tags, indy matches with Sabu, Japanese death matches with Funk, the post prime WWE death match stuff is all genuinely amazing in a way that I was absolutely not expecting it to.
Bonus Elliott's Question (Brody vs Nigel or best work associated with a crappy wrestler) One of the hardest ones. HHH vs Ultimate Warrior. You know what. We've all earned it. Draw.
Savage - 5
Foley - 4
Draw - 1
The absolute top tier matches being so close in quality made this really difficult. Plus two of my all time favorites. I basically trolled myself here.
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Post by Cap on Mar 8, 2020 19:42:14 GMT -5
Top MatchesBoth guys feel like wrestlers who make their case elsewhere. Both have great top end matches, but very few feel like legit locks for my list. I also feel like I am a touch lower on Foley’s best matches than the consensus. Savage is going to take this by a hair. I think his highest highs are just a bit better on the whole. Winner: Savage VersatilityI agree with Elliott on this one. Savage could do it all really. He flexed more muscles in this category over his career. I think Foley made a lot more with less, but Savage was such an athlete who was also extremely savvy when it came to using his skills in different settings. Winner: Savage ConsistencyFoley for sure. He loved wrestling in a way that was palpable every time he got in the ring. Savage loved wrestling as well, but he ran into more contexts that flattened his work at times (WCW). A lot of his later work in WCW is just not what I want it to be. Winner: Foley
Charisma/”It” FactorNot a lot of people are going to beat Savage here. He was larger than life in a world where he was not actually larger than most of his peers. Winner: Savage PromosUGH…. So fucking close on this one. Savage carries promos better with his charisma. Foley is a genius on the mic in my mind, a true intellectual in his approach. I am going to go with Foley here. I count him in with the greatest of all time. Savage is up there too, but Foley edges him out. Winner: Foley Elevating OthersYeah, Elliott already said it. I always put it this way, Every superstar in the Attitude Era should be sending Foley a nice Christmas card every ear. Without Foley there is no Taker, Austin, HHH, or Rock in the way we understand them. There is also arguably no Orton, Sting, or maybe even HBK. Winner: Foley OffenseSavage by some distance. He was so dynamic. Everything from him looks good. Winner: Savage Selling This one is kind of close to me. Savage was probably better at selling. Foley was just always in a ton of pain because he was hurting himself all the damn time. Foley’s crazy screaming, particularly as Cactus Jack was always kind of awesome. Savage bounced around like a pinball and could convince you he was dying. I’ll give this to Savage by a hair, but it could easily be a draw. Winner: Savage Rewatch Value Man, this is tough. I think I have to go with Foley. I can sometimes get annoyed with how long it can take a Savage match to get going. He took a lot of powders and I lose interest sometimes when rewatching. It’s really my only complaint about him. Foley’s consistency carries him here. Also, him working in so. Many different places is really helpful here, again… close. Winner: Foley Elliott’s Bonus Question (Brody/Nigel or Best Work Associated With a Bad Wrestler)I give this to Savage. I know some people think the Warrior was a lot better than I do. I think he was someone who was perfectly capable of having a good match in the WWE main event style, but Savage elevated him so much further than anyone else could. Winner: Savage
Final Count Savage - 5.5
Foley - 4
If there was one category that I haven't included that I sometimes wish I had it would be something like "maximizing potential". Foley did more with less. He over performed his potential by almost every measure. That would bring this one to about as close as it probably should be. This feels right though. Both are all timers in my mind.
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