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Post by Cap on Mar 4, 2020 19:37:25 GMT -5
You like violence? You like blood? Well... here ya go. This one is in stark contrast to our other semi-final match. Here we have two classic brawls that are loaded with violence and drama. So, which one you got?
Round 2 - Match 2
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (I Quit Match – 3/23/1997)
vs
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Post by Cap on Mar 9, 2020 12:58:27 GMT -5
These two are separated by like 3 spots on my current top 100. I am going to try really hard to get a watch in before I cast my vote.
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Post by elliott on Mar 10, 2020 3:18:56 GMT -5
Bret/Austin easy.
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Post by Cap on Mar 11, 2020 7:42:13 GMT -5
I just watched them this morning and I think I have to go with Austin/Hart as well.
Both matches feel like things you could turn on in a vaccuum and "get". Of course we all know the context for Austin/Hart, it strikes me as a match that would be at least great without it. Aja vs Hotta is a no context needed match if I've seen one.
In terms of physicality and action Aja v Hotta runs away with this. There are just so few matches like it. It isn't without its narrative substance too. The work around the hand, the dominance of Aja through much of it mixed with Hotta's comebacks, and way fatigue (authentically or planned) shaped the action as they went... the match is - I think - deceptively well put together.
However, it is in that narrative category where it can't really hold a candle to Hart/Austin. This is just a master class in telling a story. The degree of difficulty is off the charts. For a time this was my favorite wrestling match ever and one of my most rewatched. I think that made me sort of artificially low (relatively speaking) on it. I think most almost objectively great things get this treatment at one time or another. They get taken for granted as it becomes more interesting to talk about and think about the greatness of other stuff. This is pretty elite stuff and tops Aja/Hotta by a hair to me.
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Post by elliott on Mar 11, 2020 14:05:25 GMT -5
Glad to see Hart/Austin winning. Because of this thread and the Bull/Aja one, I watched Hotta/Kong yet again yesterday alongside several other Bull & Aja matches. And Hotta/Kong was my 2nd favorite match from the 1/24/94 AJW show.
I have no problem calling it great but it has some issues structurally and some of Hotta's selling choices I'm not in love with. You could say "yeah, but Joshi" but it really stood out compared to the other stuff I watched. I also don't think its this like otherwordly violent match compared to other matches. Sure its super stiff. Its a match between Aja Kong & Yumiko Hotta. They hit hard. Just like Hotta's matches with Kandori. Or Kong's matches with Kansai. Or that Hotta/Lioness "UFC rules" match. Or Hokuto/Kandori both times. Or Bull vs Kandori. Or Ozaki vs Kansai. Or Hotta vs Yamada. But its also bloody. And that's cool. I like blood in my wrestling. But its not like its one of the 50 bloodiest matches ever. They don't do anything as cool as biting the cut and then spitting blood in the air. Its unique because its the hand and I get that. But its not like Yumiko Hotta is this awesome seller. Its probably the worst aspect of her game (again Joshi, but some of them in this era were good at selling).
Like I said I would call Hotta/Aja a great match. But I'm just not seeing this all time classic that is so over the top violent and stiff that it makes up for the flaws and is worth ranking above something like Austin/Hart. When I think "violent Joshi matches" its like Megumi Kudo getting blown up or Dynamite Kansai wrapping a chain around her combat boot & kicking Mayumi Ozaki in the face or Dump Matsumoto stabbing Yukari Ohmori with scissors and them continuing to work while the scissors are just dangling from Ohmori's arm.
Aja vs Hotta is like a low end top 100 Joshi matches of the 80s & 90s for me at this point. Yall shouldn't have made me keep watching it so many times.
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Post by jetlag on Mar 11, 2020 17:08:07 GMT -5
I went with Kong/Hotta without thinking about it much. I've said before that I find Austin/Hart to be insanely overrated and the brawling in it pales in comparison to what Kong and Hotta were doing. It's the kind of stuff I find myself watching and zoning out while the opening to the joshi match is an instant attention grabber. I'd also say I prefer the stigmata hand work on Hotta over the generic cut work/biting you see in a thousand lucha bloodbaths. Also, the fact that both workers used kicks and palm strikes and worked in elements such as groundwork and big vs. little psychology into their match made it a more unique experience than your typical bloody brawl. It's basically like watching a classic mixed fighting gorefest, like of Bob Sapp vs. Nogeira was more primitive and had blood. I will take that over a well constructed, reasonable match that tells a story just like I'll take a 2 minute Bad Brains song over a 20 minute prog rock epic. I'd also say both Hotta and Aja added more to their match than Hart did.
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Post by Cap on Mar 11, 2020 21:25:22 GMT -5
Well I am going to call it for Hart/Austin.
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