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Post by tetsujin on Apr 16, 2021 11:45:14 GMT -5
WALTER and Sasha Banks are definitely workers I want to see how many points they get by 2026.
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Post by tetsujin on May 15, 2021 17:02:58 GMT -5
My GWE Q1 list right now would look something like this. It's actually the first time I try to put a top 25 or whatever together, but it might be interesting to see where am I now and come back to it five years later and see what happened. So here it is: 1. Kenta Kobashi 2. Bryan Danielson 3. Jushin Thunder Liger 4. Nick Bockwinkel 5. Hijo del Santo 6. Chris Benoit 7. Stan Hansen 8. Mitsuharu Misawa 9. Aja Kong 10. Hiroshi Tanahashi 11. Shawn Michaels 12. Ric Flair 13. Kurt Angle 14. Tatsumi Fujinami 15. Terry Funk 16. Negro Casas 17. AJ Styles 18. Eddie Guerrero 19. Buddy Rose 20. Toshiaki Kawada 21. Jerry Lawler 22. Jun Akiyama 23. Rey Mysterio 24. Akira Taue 25. Kiyoshi Tamura These are the workers that, right know, have a strong chance of changing this top 25 (no particular order): Bret Hart, Brock Lesnar, Volk Han, Samoa Joe, CM Punk, Akira Hokuto, Shinya Hashimoto, Jumbo Tsuruta, William Regal, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Arn Anderson, Genichiro Tenryu, Undertaker, Manami Toyota, Shinobu Kandori, Mick Foley... There's little to no chance that any of these guys misses my top 50.
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Post by Control21 on Nov 10, 2021 0:36:31 GMT -5
I guess this would be a good way to make my first post.
1) Bret Hart 2) Volk Han 3) Blue Panther 4) Akira Maeda 5) Mitsuharu Misawa 6) Billy Robinson 7) Kiyoshi Tamura 8) Kenta Kobashi 9) Tsuyoshi Kohsaka 10) Yoshiaki Fujiwara 11) Tatsumi Fujinami 12) Negro Casas 13) Antonio Inoki 14) Nobuhiko Takada 15) Karl Gotch 16) El Hijo del Santo 17) Jumbo Tsuruta 18) Owen Hart 19) Kazushi Sakuraba 20) Eddie Guerrero 21) Toshiaki Kawada 22) Satoru Sayama 23) Nick Bockwinkel 24) Villano III 25) Minoru Suzuki
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Post by elliott on Nov 10, 2021 0:57:23 GMT -5
Cool list!
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Post by kas on Nov 22, 2021 11:17:22 GMT -5
Might do GWE so I put together a (very) rough top 20 I'm happy with.
1. Hiroshi Tanahashi 2. Kenta Kobashi 3. Bryan Danielson 4. Kazuchika Okada 5. Manami Toyota 6. Akira Hokuto 7. Mitsuharu Misawa 8. Bret Hart 9. Toshiaki Kawada 10. Stan Hansen 11. AJ Styles 12. Terry Funk 13. Rey Mysterio 14. Bull Nakano 15. Shawn Michaels 16. Tomohiro Ishii 17. Eddie Guerrero 18. Aja Kong 19. Akira Taue 20. Kota Ibushi
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Post by tetsujin on Nov 22, 2021 11:59:07 GMT -5
So much respect for Tana as #1. Seriously.
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Post by kas on Nov 22, 2021 16:54:29 GMT -5
He has aged liked the finest of whiskeys
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Post by tetsujin on Feb 1, 2022 19:20:05 GMT -5
My GWE Q1 list right now would look something like this. It's actually the first time I try to put a top 25 or whatever together, but it might be interesting to see where am I now and come back to it five years later and see what happened. So here it is: 1. Kenta Kobashi 2. Bryan Danielson 3. Jushin Thunder Liger 4. Nick Bockwinkel 5. Hijo del Santo 6. Chris Benoit 7. Stan Hansen 8. Mitsuharu Misawa 9. Aja Kong 10. Hiroshi Tanahashi 11. Shawn Michaels 12. Ric Flair 13. Kurt Angle 14. Tatsumi Fujinami 15. Terry Funk 16. Negro Casas 17. AJ Styles 18. Eddie Guerrero 19. Buddy Rose 20. Toshiaki Kawada 21. Jerry Lawler 22. Jun Akiyama 23. Rey Mysterio 24. Akira Taue 25. Kiyoshi Tamura These are the workers that, right know, have a strong chance of changing this top 25 (no particular order): Bret Hart, Brock Lesnar, Volk Han, Samoa Joe, CM Punk, Akira Hokuto, Shinya Hashimoto, Jumbo Tsuruta, William Regal, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Arn Anderson, Genichiro Tenryu, Undertaker, Manami Toyota, Shinobu Kandori, Mick Foley... There's little to no chance that any of these guys misses my top 50. Ok trying this again to see how much things have change after a while: 1. Kenta Kobashi - at the end of the day, what matters the most is how good these guys were. And nobody looks better to me at their peak than Kobashi, and also, nobody has looked as good as much as him. He not only looks like the best ever, he looked like that for an insane amount of times. Not only that, but he's the one who has made me get emotionally invested the most. There's just too many categories and matches where I can just see him mastering pro wrestling to perfection, at least for my tastes. And, for a japanese guy, this dude showed a lot of versatility when needed, think about it: traditional title matches, big tag matches, sprint tag matches, southern tag matches, multitags, brawls, spotfests, more technical bouts against guys like Hase or Honda, working from underneath, dominating as a world champion, fightgin juggernauts toe to toe, working classic babyface out-smarted by a chicken shit heel against Akiyama and Ogawa, selling the leg, selling the arm, working the leg, working the arm, no selling, selling a lot... He did all those things and more in a more-than-great way, even if some of then were more present in his career than others. Guys, there's no chance for anyone else right now. It has to be Kobashi. 2. Bryan Danielson - most versatile wrestler ever, with incredible consistency as well. The only one I can see challenging Kobashi for the top spot in the future, because he keeps going. He literally can do everything in a pro wrestling ring. 3. Jushin Thunder Liger - the perfect definition of full package. This guy, just like Bryan, could do it all, and while he doesn't have as much top tier stuff as I would have loved, his floor is pretty fucking high, and he still have a couple of elite matches anyway, so he's definitely not one of those "he has longevity but doesn't have THE matches" contender. He just suffers when compared against the two best wrestlers ever, and that's kinda unfair. 4. Nick Bockwinkel - I hope someday we can have most of his full career online, because what we have of him is enough to put him this high. To me this guy is the absolute perfect heel in pro wrestling history, and his versatility even feels ahead of his time. This Fella out-brawled Lawler and out-grappled Robinson. 5. Hiroshi Tanahashi - yeah his 2021 has made me realizew that top 10 isn't enough for this guy. He's a #1 contender, and, like Bryan, he keeps going, being probably the best veteran puroresu character I've seen. Also, his formula is the best ever, and his charisma... It's hard to explain, but he trascends the screen. The ultimate babyface (I would say even more than Kobashi in that regard) and the best big match worker ever, but also has a lot of hidden gem smaller matches to his advantage. 6. Shawn Michaels - yeah fuck it, he's undenniable to me. A prodigy when he was one of the Rockers (all-time great tag match included), then he turned heel and was amazing as a singles midcarder guy. His 1996 was super good as the top babyface, and his 1997 was even better as the most fucking asshole heel you want to punch in the world. Then he came back, four fucking years later, and had an EVEN BETTER run, with a lot of good matches against so many different opponents and in very different settings. He even retired with one of the absolute best matches of allí time, something I'm sure no one else can say. He has some bad tendencies sometimes but, honestly, he has been so great for so long and in so many different ways, yeah, undenniable is the word. 7. Aja Kong - her peak is so unbelievably good, and she's the best monster in the ring ever. Better than Vader or Hansen, even. The magic thing about her is that, while fat and strong woman who kicks every girl's asses is a pretty simple and succesful gimmick, Aja also has the acting and psychollogy to tell deeper and more complex stories in the ring. She's the best female wrestler of all time. 8. Mitsuhatu Misawa - another unbelievably good peak, this one even longer than Aja's. The only thing keeping Misawa away from #1 consideration is his lack of consistency (not being outstanding throughout the whole 80s decade, before unsmaking). He has everything else, specially offense and top matches catalogue. 9. Stan Hansen - best male brawler ever, also all-time great seller, maybe the best offensive guy ever, and one of the most consistent both in ringwork and character work. From 1981 to late 1999, Hansen rocked hard. That's huge, seriously. He has some dissapointing stuff when paired against top babyfaces (Bruno, Inoki, Baba, Jumbo, and to a lesser degree Misawa), and that puts him outside the top 5, but what's good it's super good, so no way outside the top 10. 10. El Hijo del Santo - I'm sure this guy is the best matworker of all time. Lucha's matwork doesn't often looks as good, but when done right It definitely looks like the best matwork in history, and Santito almost always brought his A game at the mat. He's also an amazing signature spot wrestler, obviously a tremendous seller and overall babyface, and his consistency is just stupid. Him falling from #5 to #10 has more to do with me appreciating other guys more and less with him looking worse to my eyes. I'm sleepy so I'll edit with the rest tomorrow.
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Post by microstatistics on Feb 2, 2022 23:31:37 GMT -5
These are the workers that, right know, have a strong chance of changing this top 25 (no particular order): Bret Hart, Brock Lesnar, Volk Han, Samoa Joe, CM Punk, Akira Hokuto, Shinya Hashimoto, Jumbo Tsuruta, William Regal, Yoshiaki Fujiwara, Arn Anderson, Genichiro Tenryu, Undertaker, Manami Toyota, Shinobu Kandori, Mick Foley... There's little to no chance that any of these guys misses my top 50. Ok trying this again to see how much things have change after a while: 1. Kenta Kobashi - at the end of the day, what matters the most is how good these guys were. And nobody looks better to me at their peak than Kobashi, and also, nobody has looked as good as much as him. He not only looks like the best ever, he looked like that for an insane amount of times. Not only that, but he's the one who has made me get emotionally invested the most. There's just too many categories and matches where I can just see him mastering pro wrestling to perfection, at least for my tastes. And, for a japanese guy, this dude showed a lot of versatility when needed, think about it: traditional title matches, big tag matches, sprint tag matches, southern tag matches, multitags, brawls, spotfests, more technical bouts against guys like Hase or Honda, working from underneath, dominating as a world champion, fightgin juggernauts toe to toe, working classic babyface out-smarted by a chicken shit heel against Akiyama and Ogawa, selling the leg, selling the arm, working the leg, working the arm, no selling, selling a lot... He did all those things and more in a more-than-great way, even if some of then were more present in his career than others. Guys, there's no chance for anyone else right now. It has to be Kobashi. 2. Bryan Danielson - most versatile wrestler ever, with incredible consistency as well. The only one I can see challenging Kobashi for the top spot in the future, because he keeps going. He literally can do everything in a pro wrestling ring. 3. Jushin Thunder Liger - the perfect definition of full package. This guy, just like Bryan, could do it all, and while he doesn't have as much top tier stuff as I would have loved, his floor is pretty fucking high, and he still have a couple of elite matches anyway, so he's definitely not one of those "he has longevity but doesn't have THE matches" contender. He just suffers when compared against the two best wrestlers ever, and that's kinda unfair. 4. Nick Bockwinkel - I hope someday we can have most of his full career online, because what we have of him is enough to put him this high. To me this guy is the absolute perfect heel in pro wrestling history, and his versatility even feels ahead of his time. This Fella out-brawled Lawler and out-grappled Robinson. 5. Hiroshi Tanahashi - yeah his 2021 has made me realizew that top 10 isn't enough for this guy. He's a #1 contender, and, like Bryan, he keeps going, being probably the best veteran puroresu character I've seen. Also, his formula is the best ever, and his charisma... It's hard to explain, but he trascends the screen. The ultimate babyface (I would say even more than Kobashi in that regard) and the best big match worker ever, but also has a lot of hidden gem smaller matches to his advantage. 6. Shawn Michaels - yeah fuck it, he's undenniable to me. A prodigy when he was one of the Rockers (all-time great tag match included), then he turned heel and was amazing as a singles midcarder guy. His 1996 was super good as the top babyface, and his 1997 was even better as the most fucking asshole heel you want to punch in the world. Then he came back, four fucking years later, and had an EVEN BETTER run, with a lot of good matches against so many different opponents and in very different settings. He even retired with one of the absolute best matches of allí time, something I'm sure no one else can say. He has some bad tendencies sometimes but, honestly, he has been so great for so long and in so many different ways, yeah, undenniable is the word.7. Aja Kong - her peak is so unbelievably good, and she's the best monster in the ring ever. Better than Vader or Hansen, even. The magic thing about her is that, while fat and strong woman who kicks every girl's asses is a pretty simple and succesful gimmick, Aja also has the acting and psychollogy to tell deeper and more complex stories in the ring. She's the best female wrestler of all time. 8. Mitsuhatu Misawa - another unbelievably good peak, this one even longer than Aja's. The only thing keeping Misawa away from #1 consideration is his lack of consistency (not being outstanding throughout the whole 80s decade, before unsmaking). He has everything else, specially offense and top matches catalogue. 9. Stan Hansen - best male brawler ever, also all-time great seller, maybe the best offensive guy ever, and one of the most consistent both in ringwork and character work. From 1981 to late 1999, Hansen rocked hard. That's huge, seriously. He has some dissapointing stuff when paired against top babyfaces (Bruno, Inoki, Baba, Jumbo, and to a lesser degree Misawa), and that puts him outside the top 5, but what's good it's super good, so no way outside the top 10. 10. El Hijo del Santo - I'm sure this guy is the best matworker of all time. Lucha's matwork doesn't often looks as good, but when done right It definitely looks like the best matwork in history, and Santito almost always brought his A game at the mat. He's also an amazing signature spot wrestler, obviously a tremendous seller and overall babyface, and his consistency is just stupid. Him falling from #5 to #10 has more to do with me appreciating other guys more and less with him looking worse to my eyes. I'm sleepy so I'll edit with the rest tomorrow. Hell yes. He is a lock for my Top 10 at this point. As are your #1, 2, 3, and 10.
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Post by silverwidow on Mar 12, 2022 10:13:18 GMT -5
My top 10 favorite workers of all-time (alphabetical):
Akira Hokuto Bret Hart Bryan Danielson Eddy Guerrero Jushin Liger Kenta Kobashi Kiyoshi Tamura Shinya Hashimoto Stan Hansen Steve Austin
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Post by mvz on Mar 12, 2022 21:11:27 GMT -5
That’s a cool top 10. Love to see Hokuto in there, and I think most of these will be in the top half or so of my list.
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Post by elliott on Mar 12, 2022 21:54:04 GMT -5
Our buddy the legendary host of the Greatest Match Ever podcast, Danny hipped me to this cool sorting app. Its really helpful for GME and GWE. czeckd.github.io/preference-revealer/dist/I did it recently and this was my top 50: 1. Terry Funk 2. Dump Matsumoto 3. Andre the Giant 4. Jerry Lawler 5. Akira Hokuto 6. El Hijo del Santo 7. Devil Masami 8. El Satanico 9. Stan Hansen 10. Bull Nakano 11. Buddy Rose 12. The Destroyer 13. Jaguar Yokota 14. Bobby Heenan 15. Randy Savage 16. Volk Han 17. Chigusa Nagayo 18. Fuerza Guerrera 19. Kiyoshi Tamura 20. LA Park 21. Yoshiaki Fujiwara 22. Shinya Hashimoto 23. Alexander Otsuka 24. Rey Mysterio Jr 25. Genichiro Tenryu 26. Ricky Morton 27. Giant Baba 28. Eddie Guerrero 29. Sangre Chicana 30. Invader I 31. Vader 32. Atsushi Onita 33. Negro Casas 34. Michael Hayes 35. Bret Hart 36. Austin Idol 37. MS-1 38. Tatsumi Fujinami 39. Tully Blanchard 40. Dick Murdoch 41. Abdullah the Butcher 42. Atlantis 43. Aja Kong 44. Roddy Piper 45. Mayumi Ozaki 46. Blue Panther 47. Riki Choshu 48. William Regal 49. Nick Bockwinkel 50. Shinobu Kandori
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Post by club on Mar 13, 2022 6:35:16 GMT -5
That's very cool. How accurate is it? And how would Heenan feel being 35 above Bock?
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Post by elliott on Mar 13, 2022 13:51:44 GMT -5
Honestly pretty accurate. There are some things i'd change here and there, but those are pretty much the people that have been in my top 50 every time I've made a list over the last few years. (Excluding Austin Idol, he's a new addition & he rules. Everyone needs to watch AUstin Idol).
re: Heenan over Bock, I recently watched alllllll of the Heenan matches that I could find. Since Heenan was often teaming with Bock I've watched quite a few Bock matches recently as well. Bock is awesome obviously. If someone wants to call him the GOAT, I'm not going to argue it. But in every single Heenan match I watched, Heenan was the absolute star and centerpiece of the match every time. Obviously Bock is awesome and was great in those matches too...but Heenan is irreplaceable. Heenan is always the story & the reason the matches he's in are memorable and entertaining & special. That's why he ranks higher for me.
Strength of opponent comes into play here too. BOckwinkel was working with Jerry Lawler or Rick Martel or Curt Hennig, meanwhile Heenan's always in there with super limited or quirky or downright shit opponents. Its one thing to have a great match with Rick Martel or Jerry Lawler. Its another thing entirely to work programs with Buck Zumhofe & Ultimate Warrior
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Post by Cap on Mar 13, 2022 19:19:58 GMT -5
sort of interesting. I put in my top 144 as of right now and it ran me through LOTS of comparisons. The result was surprisingly close, especially given how flippant I was about a lot of my answers. A few interesting points.
- 1 and 2 were spot on
- While there was some shuffling, the top 4 and then the top 12 from my working list were the same as the top 4 and then 12 from the sorting app
- only 8 in my working top 100 weren't on my top 100 from the sorting app.
A few random pairings made me think of some fever dream matches.
El Mesias vs Norman Smiley Jun Akiama vs Andre The Giant Pirata Morgan vs Antonio Inoki Dump Matsimoto vs Ricky Morton Black Terry vs Takeshi Morishima Masakatsu Funaki vs Low Ki
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