|
Post by elliott on Apr 7, 2021 17:22:30 GMT -5
One of my favorite things about the 2016 results is that Liger finished #6 behind only that absolutely murders row of a top 5. With all the juniors backlash to finish ahead of Kobashi, Kawada, Rey, Lawler, Jumbo etc. Just fantastic. One of those folks who isn't my #1 but I wouldn't blink if someone puts him there.
|
|
|
Post by mvz on Apr 7, 2021 20:48:27 GMT -5
I missed a lot today, great catching up on the thread. Yeah, my sense is Devil could land in my top 10 as well, along with Bull and Hokuto. Agree with everyone that joshi is on the rise in 2026!
|
|
|
Post by Cap on Apr 7, 2021 21:06:13 GMT -5
Joshi on the rise for 2026 is so awesome. Tetsujin, I love your top two, my friend. Not sure you got the order right ... but I love that top two all the same.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Apr 7, 2021 21:34:09 GMT -5
I missed a lot today, great catching up on the thread. Yeah, my sense is Devil could land in my top 10 as well, along with Bull and Hokuto. Agree with everyone that joshi is on the rise in 2026! I know Grimmas has Hokuto as #1 I'm leaning towards Matsumoto 2
|
|
|
Post by mjp7798 on Apr 8, 2021 10:34:50 GMT -5
I missed a lot today, great catching up on the thread. Yeah, my sense is Devil could land in my top 10 as well, along with Bull and Hokuto. Agree with everyone that joshi is on the rise in 2026! I know Grimmas has Hokuto as #1 I'm leaning towards Matsumoto 2 Dump at number 2 is an awesome sight. My top 50 will be pretty joshi heavy I think. I know I'll be really high on Hokuto, Chiggy and Kandori
|
|
|
Post by tetsujin on Apr 8, 2021 11:12:31 GMT -5
I definitely would look at a Jaguar Yokota and/or Devil Masami deep post. They are the two 80s joshi wrestlers I can see myself voting for, but would love to see what other people think about them as GOAT contenders.
|
|
|
Post by mjp7798 on Apr 8, 2021 11:38:26 GMT -5
I definitely would look at a Jaguar Yokota and/or Devil Masami deep post. They are the two 80s joshi wrestlers I can see myself voting for, but would love to see what other people think about them as GOAT contenders. I'm high on both. Could certainly see Devil cracking my top 15
|
|
|
Post by Cap on Apr 8, 2021 11:48:29 GMT -5
In the massive amount of time remaining I am probably going to give serious consideration to the following women for top 5, if not #1.
Kandori Hokuto Nakano Jaguar Nagayo Devil Aja
All of them are pretty much locks and are in my top 35, which is about where my lock-cutoff is. Just about everyone in that range (and probably a few more) will get good faith consideration as the GOAT.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Apr 8, 2021 19:06:35 GMT -5
In addition to all the big time top 10 all time contenders out of 80s and 90s Joshi, I hope people take a look at Mariko Yoshida, Mayumi Ozaki, Megumi Kudo, Itsuki Yamazaki, Takako Inoue etc etc etc. THere are a ton of women who deserve serious consideration. Not just the usual top tier contenders.
I look at 2016's results and see Fit Finlay at 58 and I'm like "Mariko Yoshida fucking murders Finlay in a comparison."
THe real win won't be Hokuto or Jaguar breaking into the top 20. Its Mariko Yoshida cracking the top 75, Ozaki in the top 100, Takako in the top 200. Realistically they belong WAY higher, but I'm not going to fool myself into pretending we're gonna get get Mariko Yoshida into the top 25 where she belongs.
|
|
|
Post by mvz on Apr 8, 2021 19:59:43 GMT -5
I am going to work off of the familiar names first but Elliott posted a top 25 for Joshi, Lucha, and shoot I think earlier in this thread that I am hoping to use to get at some of the names beyond the obvious.
|
|
|
Post by Cap on Apr 8, 2021 20:29:28 GMT -5
Ozaki and Kudo are near locks for my list.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Apr 8, 2021 20:48:59 GMT -5
I am going to work off of the familiar names first but Elliott posted a top 25 for Joshi, Lucha, and shoot I think earlier in this thread that I am hoping to use to get at some of the names beyond the obvious. I updated the JOshi one for you. Subject to change FYI. There are some names from the 70s & 80s I want to take a closer look at (Yumi Ikeshita, Mami Kumano, Yumi Ogura, Tarantula, etc etc Some people who were coming on strong during the late 90s/early 00s dark ages (Yoshiko Tamura, Kaoru Ito, Misae Genki, Ayako Hamada etc etc). And then modern day stuff from the last 15 years on I'm basically blank on Joshi. So I still have work to do too. BUt as of today heres a top 25. I can pretty easily see the first 18 names making my top 50. 1. Akira Hokuto 2. Dump Matsumoto 3. Bull Nakano 4. Jaguar Yokota 5. Chigusa Nagayo 6. Devil Masami 7. Meiko Satomura 8. Shinobu Kandori 9. Mariko Yoshida 10. Aja Kong 11. Mayumi Ozaki 12. Megumi Kudo 13. Itzuki Yamazaki 14. Takako Inoue 15. Manami Toyota 16. Yukari Ohmori 17. Mima Shimoda 18. Etsuka Mita 19. Dynamite Kansai 20. Chikayo Nagashima 21. Bison Kimura 22. Harley Saito 23. Lioness Asuka 24. Cutie Suzuki 25. Suzuka Minami
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Apr 8, 2021 21:00:42 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Kadaveri on Apr 8, 2021 21:40:45 GMT -5
I definitely would look at a Jaguar Yokota and/or Devil Masami deep post. They are the two 80s joshi wrestlers I can see myself voting for, but would love to see what other people think about them as GOAT contenders.
I listened to podcasts of people breaking down their 2016 lists and I was really floored by someone (I think it was Chad Campbell) having ranked Devil Masami but noting that they'd only seen her 90s stuff... The biggest problem with most of the Joshi contenders is the lack of longevity. They were either forced to retire at 25 or just worked a style that was designed to have no one past their athletic peak involved and weren't able to adapt after they couldn't go so fast anymore. Jaguar was good in the late 90s but her case really suffers from being retired from 1986-95.
Devil is not like that at all though. She's in great matches as early as 1980, was still having minorly great matches up to about 1997 in my book, and I don't think she ever really has a significant 'down' period anywhere in between. 17 years is a long time being an at least 'really good' worker capable of having great matches; it's basically the same length as Jumbo Tsuruta's run, whose longevity is considered a mark in his favour. Jumbo's 1989-92 (before getting ill) is way better than Devil's 1994-97 so it's not the best comparison, but I also think Jumbo's resume is kinda thin in the early 80s until Choshu turns up so that cancels that out a bit. Devil does decline a lot in the late 90s when she can't really move well or bump anymore. The Super Heel stuff is bad, way worse than anything Jumbo was involved in, but I don't hold wrestlers getting bad when they're old against them. I just think of it "here's where their case of was made", draw a line, and anything afterwards is irrelevant.
|
|
|
Post by Kadaveri on Apr 8, 2021 21:58:34 GMT -5
14. Takako Inoue 15. Manami Toyota This made me laugh coz I remember 10+ years ago saying I prefered Takako to Manami on some forum and got blasted for trolling.
|
|