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HHH
Apr 1, 2020 10:09:10 GMT -5
Post by Cap on Apr 1, 2020 10:09:10 GMT -5
So I have found myself watching some post 2000s WWE on and off for a bit now and I am sort of surprised by how many HHH matches I find good to great. I always used to sort of think of him as a average wrestler who could be carried by someone great. I'm starting to wonder if he was actually a pretty good wrestler, who understood the style well and could have great matches as long as someone tempers his worst instincts (because lets be clear, he can have some STINKERS). Just ones I have rated, here are matches I legit enjoy, some of which I consider GREAT.
v Cactus Jack (1/23/2000) v Austin (2/25/2001)
w/Austin v Jericho and Benoit (5/21/2001) v HBK v Benoit (3/14/2004) v Batista (4/3/2005) v Batista (6/26/2005) v Taker (4/3/2011) v Taker (4/1/2012) v Bryan (4/6/2014) w Stephanie v Angle and Rousey (4/8/2018) v Batista (4/7/2019)
I know not everyone is going to agree on all of those and HHH is certainly not the best wrestler in each case, but that is a longer list of matches I like from HHH than I expected. I'm sure I am missing stuff that I either haven't watched since it happened or maybe haven't watched at all (I was in and out of caring about WWE and cherry picking heavily in much of the 2000s). At least two of those matches (Foley and Bryan) are real contenders for my list.
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HHH
Apr 1, 2020 11:06:59 GMT -5
Post by kas on Apr 1, 2020 11:06:59 GMT -5
I think HHH is a weird case because people tend to either vastly overrate or vastly underrate him. I'm somewhere in the middle. I think that between the Cactus Jack match and his injury in 2001 he was the best wrestler in the world, but post-injury he's been far too inconsistent. He's also someone who doesn't really know his own strengths. He's a far better brawler than he is a technician, but too often he would try and rely on his technical ability, even if it isn't the right situation for it - the Rollins match is a particularly egregious example. At the end of the day, I think he's a good wrestler who could have been one of the all-time greats people often tout him as if he reigned in his worst tendencies.
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HHH
Apr 1, 2020 11:19:04 GMT -5
Post by nintendologic on Apr 1, 2020 11:19:04 GMT -5
The best description I've heard of HHH is that he's a good wrestler who thinks he's a great wrestler, which often leads to him being a terrible wrestler.
I would add that the Jericho match at Fully Loaded still holds up. For my money, it's the second-greatest LMS match of all time.
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HHH
Apr 1, 2020 11:41:59 GMT -5
Post by Cap on Apr 1, 2020 11:41:59 GMT -5
Yeah. I think that is spot on. I would say if we did a list of our top 100 worst matches of all time (let me stop you right there.... no!) at least 2-3 HHH matches would be contenders for top 10. I might have that HBK v HHH HIAC match as my #1.
I'll get to that Jericho match. I wanted to rewatch some of theirs. I'm trying to clear my workload by tomorrow evening so I can dedicate the whole weekend to wrestling. It wont be a traditional wrestlemania weekend binge, but I gotta celebrate.
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HHH
Apr 1, 2020 12:16:06 GMT -5
Post by kas on Apr 1, 2020 12:16:06 GMT -5
I would add that the Jericho match at Fully Loaded still holds up. For my money, it's the second-greatest LMS match of all time.
If there's one gimmick match that Triple H excels at it's LMS matches. He's had 4 of them and I can't recall not enjoying a single one, and the Jericho one is the best of the lot. I agree with it being the second-best of all time.
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HHH
Apr 1, 2020 15:24:06 GMT -5
Post by elliott on Apr 1, 2020 15:24:06 GMT -5
Booooooooooo
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HHH
Apr 1, 2020 17:27:10 GMT -5
Post by elliott on Apr 1, 2020 17:27:10 GMT -5
So I have found myself watching some post 2000s WWE on and off for a bit now and I am sort of surprised by how many HHH matches I find good to great. I always used to sort of think of him as a average wrestler who could be carried by someone great. I'm starting to wonder if he was actually a pretty good wrestler, who understood the style well and could have great matches as long as someone tempers his worst instincts (because lets be clear, he can have some STINKERS). Just ones I have rated, here are matches I legit enjoy, some of which I consider GREAT.
v Cactus Jack (1/23/2000) v Austin (2/25/2001)
w/Austin v Jericho and Benoit (5/21/2001) v HBK v Benoit (3/14/2004) v Batista (4/3/2005) v Batista (6/26/2005) v Taker (4/3/2011) v Taker (4/1/2012) v Bryan (4/6/2014) w Stephanie v Angle and Rousey (4/8/2018) v Batista (4/7/2019)
I know not everyone is going to agree on all of those and HHH is certainly not the best wrestler in each case, but that is a longer list of matches I like from HHH than I expected. I'm sure I am missing stuff that I either haven't watched since it happened or maybe haven't watched at all (I was in and out of caring about WWE and cherry picking heavily in much of the 2000s). At least two of those matches (Foley and Bryan) are real contenders for my list.
It is remarkable how few truly great and memorable matches HHH has had. He's one of the most visible, pushed & protected wrestlers in history with his entire career taking place during the "everyone wrestles on TV every week + 12 PPV's a year" era who had the benefit of every possible advantage in terms of booking and you could barely make it past 10 matches in a 20 year stretch. Hahahaha. There's a global pandemic and we all have to stay inside and you're torturing yourself with HHH matches! Don't do it to yourself brother!
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HHH
Apr 1, 2020 17:54:38 GMT -5
Post by Cap on Apr 1, 2020 17:54:38 GMT -5
haha... i said "than I expected" not "what he should have had". To be fair, I have only watched one HHH match since playing quarantine and it was the Austin/HHH match.
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HHH
Apr 1, 2020 19:20:58 GMT -5
Post by microstatistics on Apr 1, 2020 19:20:58 GMT -5
Nice list Cap.
I'd consider the Foley HIAC, two Flair matches from 2005, DX vs. Edge/Orton 07 (the second quad tear match), Cena WM22 and Brock 2012 as well.
I'm in the middle too and think he is decent. Gets way too much hate but isn't great.
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HHH
Apr 1, 2020 19:38:46 GMT -5
Post by bossrock on Apr 1, 2020 19:38:46 GMT -5
After seeing the Bryan, Foley Rumble, and Austin 3 Stages of Hell matches, it really frustrates me that HHH could've been much better than he actually was. Not saying he would've been an all-time great per se, but I can only imagine what his career would like if he wasn't such an insecure egomaniac.
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HHH
Apr 1, 2020 19:42:02 GMT -5
Post by bossrock on Apr 1, 2020 19:42:02 GMT -5
Granted, he wasn't the best guy in any of those matches, but he wasn't bad nor did he actively take away from them.
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HHH
Apr 1, 2020 20:03:37 GMT -5
Post by Cap on Apr 1, 2020 20:03:37 GMT -5
Those are my top three for him as well and they are super frustrating. I think especially the Foley and Bryan matches because they are sort of different sides of him.
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HHH
Apr 3, 2020 16:47:17 GMT -5
Post by nintendologic on Apr 3, 2020 16:47:17 GMT -5
I thought HHH was the better performer in the Bryan match. It actually felt like a borderline HHH carry job to me when I rewatched it recently.
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HHH
Apr 4, 2020 8:10:00 GMT -5
Post by Cap on Apr 4, 2020 8:10:00 GMT -5
I'm a Bryan mark, so grain of salt... but I think it was HHH's best individual performance, but far from a carry job. I think his pacing and selling kept HHH's offense more interesting. His comebacks were mint as well.
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HHH
May 11, 2020 19:12:17 GMT -5
Post by nintendologic on May 11, 2020 19:12:17 GMT -5
After rewatching Punk/Bryan at Over the Limit and Cena/Bryan at Summerslam, I'm more convinced than ever that HHH deserves a significant share of the credit for the WM30 match. Punk and Cena seemed to be more willing to accommodate Bryan's more self-indulgent tendencies, so we had a bunch of Angle/Benoit-esque workrate sequences that brought those matches down in my view. HHH seemed to be more willing to rein Bryan in, which worked to the match's benefit. I don't think he could have produced a match of that caliber on his own, but he might have had a better idea of how to integrate ROH workrate style with WWE main event style.
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