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Post by elliott on Apr 1, 2020 21:44:05 GMT -5
Good luck!
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Post by bossrock on Apr 1, 2020 22:03:45 GMT -5
WHY?! Why are you doing this to me?!
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Post by KB8 on Apr 2, 2020 9:42:01 GMT -5
I'm still a few behind on the threads I really want to do, but these are two of my all-time top 3 and I had them in my top two spots for the 2016 GWE. So I might be a fan of both these wrestlers.
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Post by elliott on Apr 3, 2020 1:07:32 GMT -5
WHY?! Why are you doing this to me?! I...I may have looked at your top 25 approximately 5 seconds before making this poll. Its possible. I can't confirm it. I usually try and think about people who are pretty different for these comparisons, so I figured it'd be fun to have one with similar wrestlers everyone loves. |
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Post by Cap on May 12, 2020 18:27:09 GMT -5
I fell way behind on these. I was always a few behind and then mania happened. I should have some time though so hopefully I'll get a chance to come back and hit this with a more detailed response, but I'll take Hansen.
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Post by tetsujin on Dec 24, 2020 8:23:22 GMT -5
Am I the only one seeing this as a squash for Hansen? I really like Tenryu but I think Hansen wins against him at everything, even at consistency, Tenryu's biggest argument here. Definitely better offensive wrestler, better seller, he have more and better top matches, better character... I can see Tenryu being the most versatile of the two, and charisma and elevating opponents are pretty god damn close, but Hansen wins clearly at everything else.
Hansen is a GOATC to me, while Tenryu might "only" be at my top 25.
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Post by Cap on Dec 24, 2020 12:58:12 GMT -5
I think I am where tetsujin is on this one. I never got around to breaking it down, but I think Hansen would run away with it.
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Post by elliott on Dec 24, 2020 13:19:53 GMT -5
The answer is Hansen, but I think it is much closer than the previous two posts suggest. Its like the 4th best ever vs the 12th best ever. I disagree with the point of view that Hansen's 80s AJPW Tag work wasn't good. But still my knee jerk is that Tenryu is gonna swamp Hansen with high end Tags & Multi Man matches. Hansen has his US & Puerto Rico runs that help, but Tenryu has worked in every setting imaginable in Japan.
Gut reaction is Hansen, but either guy is a solid choice for the GOAT.
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Post by bossrock on Dec 24, 2020 15:57:13 GMT -5
Top Matches: Tenryu has an unreal amount of great matches to his name awith some undeniable classics. But Hansen's list of top-tier matches is just a bit higher. He had more matches to make my list and his peak match outranks Tenryu's peak match (which happened to include Hansen).
Winner: Hansen
Offense: Tenryu was never the most precise or technical wrestler (quite the opposite actually), but most of what he hit you with looked like it hurt. That being said, Hansen is one of the greatest offensive wrestlers ever. It almost seems a bit unfair due to how stiff he worked, but it's still a point in his favor.
Winner: Hansen
Selling: Tenryu was a great seller. But Hansen is GOAT-tier. And really what makes him the best is not how he sold, but WHEN he sold. He was perfect at knowing when to power through strikes and overwhelm an opponent or when to start showing serious ass and make his opponent look like a world-beater. Selling is absolutely key to being a great brawler, and Hansen was the king in that regard. That's not to say Tenryu didn't do this (he absolutely did and was awesome at it) but Hansen's selling stands above almost everyone.
Winner: Hansen
Promos: N/A. Hansen was a fun promo though.
Charisma: This is a tough one. Hansen had that wild, out of control charisma. The sight of him running down to the ring whipping any poor soul in his way is almost impossible to beat. But Tenryu always felt like an attraction. He maintained an impressive superstar aura no matter what promotion he was in. I think I have to give the edge to Hansen, but by only the slightest of margins.
Winner: Hansen
Elevating Others: With the exception of a pre-Vader Leon White, I'm not aware of any great Hansen carry jobs. Tenryu on the other hand had good matches with just about everybody in a variety of settings. Whether it be a mega star in Hashimoto or a lesser-known wrestler like Nobutaka Araya, Tenryu could make any match feel like a big deal.
Winner: Tenryu
Versatility: Tenryu by a mile. While Hansen had some good "sporting" matches with Jumbo and Choshu, that's really not the Stan Hansen I like to watch. I would much rather watch the Stan Hansen that stomps the shit out of dudes before taking their head off with a lariat. Similarly, I prefer the grumpy Tenryu who smacked folks around. But his more traditional "wrestling" matches against guys like Flair and Mutoh stand way above Hansen's. Not to mention he could thrive in No DQ, shoot style, or exploding cage matches. Tenryu joins Bryan and Funk as one of the most versatile wrestlers to ever do it.
Winner: Tenryu
Consistency: Both guys were very good for a very long time. But I think Tenryu edges him out slightly in terms of longevity. Hansen was largely worn down by the mid to late-90's while Tenryu kept going strong until at least 2005.
Winner: Tenryu
Re-Watch Valley: Tie. I love them both so much.
Winner: Draw
Bonus Question: As I mentioned in Elevating Others, Tenryu has a bigger track record of getting good matches with lesser workers.
Winner: Tenryu
Hansen: 4
Tenryu: 4
Draw: 1
The final scoring reflects how close this one is for me. My kneejerk reaction as of late has been Tenryu due to his versatility, longevity, and working well against a wider range of opponents. But Hansen has higher peaks and edges him out in offense and selling. I'm tempted to say Hansen now but don't feel nearly comfortable enough to say for sure, ha. They both have similar strengths and are so accessible and easy to watch. Truly two of the most universal wrestlers ever. At worst, they are both top 6 for me.
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Post by elliott on Dec 24, 2020 20:03:07 GMT -5
Hansen's 1-2 punch of vs Andre & vs Kobashi 7/93 can compete with just about anyone's 2 best matches. A Top 100 list of just Tenryu & Hansen's matches would be interesting to see who comes out on top in terms of volume. Agreed with Hansen but its not because his offense was more varied. I think you could make an argument for Tenryu as an all time great offensive wrestler too. He did a lot of the same moves Hansen did (Tenryu's level of stiffness is really right there with Hansen), but would also throw out like a top rope hurricanrana or top rope reverse german suplex. Agreed with all this. Hansen's works more for me, but I think Tenryu is the answer here. Tenryu felt larger than life. Hansen was more knowable and had to work to maintain his charisma. Tenryu's felt more natural. Tenryu just seems cool. The Giant Baba matches would probably be considered carry jobs. Some might point to the Colon matches. If not carry jobs he's pushing a fellow great wrestler to the best matches of his career. And honestly, Hansen played a big hand in establishing the pillars as legit superstars. It was Hansen who elevated Misawa to the Ace position when Jumbo went down. Hansen vs Kobashi says hello. Hell, Tenryu vs Jumbo says hello too! This has to be a draw. Once they figured it out Hansen was always Hansen and Tenryu was always Tenryu. Hansen was better until 1986. Then its probably a toss up every year between 1987 and 1993. Then Tenryu finally gets the advantage as Hansen wears down. This is basically a tie. Both have a decade or so clearly better. And like 7 years overlapping in their prime where they're both candidates for best male wrestler in the world. Preach. I dunno. I have to think more about this. Watch those Hansen vs Baba matches. Its hard because Hansen kinda forces everyone to work Hansen's style. Like 1991 Kobashi is a great wrestler, but Hansen makes him work a Hansen match and its young Kobashi's best match. I'll think more about this over the holiday as a get opportunities. I'm closer to being in line with Boss than those who think its Hansen in a stomping. |
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Post by bossrock on Dec 24, 2020 21:13:53 GMT -5
Hansen vs Kobashi says hello. Hell, Tenryu vs Jumbo says hello too! Maybe Hansen-Kobashi aren't brawls in the traditional sense, but the level of violence and physicality in those matches is definitely more along the lines of his crazy brawls than him working holds with Jumbo and Choshu. Fair call on Tenryu-Jumbo though. |
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Post by elliott on Jan 7, 2021 21:43:48 GMT -5
I was going to ask if folks preferred Jumbo vs Tenryu or Hansen vs Kobashi as a rivalry. But I kinda figure everyone would go with Hansen vs Kobashi? Has Jumbo vs Tenryu outside of 6/5/89 become underrated? Looking at the honorable mention and top 100 list from this year, it looks like 6/5/89 and the 12/89 tag league final are the only matches from the Jumbo vs Tenryu feud that made it. There is little discussion of their matches outside of those two. I'd encourage folks to check out all the singles and tags between Jumbo and Tenryu.
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Post by tetsujin on Jan 8, 2021 4:35:25 GMT -5
I've watched a couple of years ago the 19/04/1990 Jumbo/Tenryu and thought It was awesome, obviously not at the level of the 89 classic but still, so damn good. That match had me thinking about how cool their rivalry would have evolved if both were in 90s AJPW as veterans.
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Post by Cap on Jan 8, 2021 9:56:12 GMT -5
You know where I am going. Hansen/Kobashi is best pairing in wrestling history.
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Post by elliott on Jan 8, 2021 11:56:34 GMT -5
I've watched a couple of years ago the 19/04/1990 Jumbo/Tenryu and thought It was awesome, obviously not at the level of the 89 classic but still, so damn good. That match had me thinking about how cool their rivalry would have evolved if both were in 90s AJPW as veterans. I think this is interesting because if you look at the PWO thread, you'll find comments like "good match" and "not that bad." This has always been the least liked Jumbo vs Tenryu match. I've always really liked it personally and think its pretty clearly a great match....but literally all of their matches were great matches. For the 80s AJPW DVDVR set (which is fucking loaded) Jumbo vs Tenryu singles matches finished: 1, 8, 12 and 13. With tags you can include #s 4, 14, 16, 35, 40, 47. Having ten of the top 47 matches from 80s AJPW is insane. You also have the years of teaming up and great matches that adds richness to their rivalry. I watched the 8/31/87 match and it is spectacular. |
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