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Post by elliott on Apr 24, 2020 13:14:53 GMT -5
We're about 4 months away from the next ballot. Was wondering where people stand these days? Any new top 10 contenders? Anything different you're thinking about this time vs last time? edit - Everyone's putting the Boneyard match at #1 right? We can all agree?  |
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Post by Kadaveri on Apr 24, 2020 15:27:14 GMT -5
The only significant change in my list is I've now watched loads of 1984-89 Joshi and that's done quite well. Chigusa Nagayo now has 5 matches on my list.
I'm also starting to give more weight to matches being 'different' as well as just great, unless they're the very very best that style to offer. I'll be giving more diminishing returns for example for the big 90s AJPW matches, I think I match should be penalised if it feels like an inferior version of a match that already happened, even if it was still great in a vacuum.
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Post by kas on Apr 24, 2020 16:19:41 GMT -5
I gave all of my top 10 a rewatch, Hokuto Vs Kandori jumps up from 10 to 3 while Taker Vs Michaels at wm25 falls out of the top 10. I also watched quite a few US tag matches and a couple RNR and MX matches will definitely be on the list.
I'm currently planning on watching 80s New Japan and Lucha before I turn in my ballot to try and give my list a bit more variety, because it's currently very 90s All Japan and 2010s New Japan heavy.
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Post by bossrock on Apr 24, 2020 18:21:19 GMT -5
I plan on going through my entire list in a few months or so. Only a few modifications so far and I wouldn't be surprised if my ballot remains relatively the same. But there's some more lucha and Joshi I plan on watching.
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Post by nintendologic on Apr 24, 2020 23:11:51 GMT -5
I don't know if I'll be submitting ballots in the future. I'm glad I participated last year, but it made me realize that probably I'll never be able to put together a list I'm truly happy with. In particular, I've realized that I'm far more comfortable with tiers than I am with linear rankings.
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Post by elliott on Apr 25, 2020 1:44:45 GMT -5
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Post by elliott on Apr 25, 2020 4:45:22 GMT -5
The only significant change in my list is I've now watched loads of 1984-89 Joshi and that's done quite well. Chigusa Nagayo now has 5 matches on my list. Hell yeah! Which 80s joshi matches are you looking at? Is Chigusa in all of them? |
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Post by Cap on Apr 25, 2020 10:16:51 GMT -5
Yeah, if the boneyard match isn't top 10 then this whole project has been a massive failure.
I did a lot of watching and rewatching some high end stuff after the last ballot and ventured out into some genres and promotions that I wasn't as familiar with. In turn, there are probably 10-15 new matches on my list. There is also some significant movement up and down my list for a few matches. There likely wont be a ton of turnover in the top 10 or anything, but my list will look different.
I'll be interested to see if we have the same turn out as last time. The board really ebbs and flows with activity. We have a strong core of posters. I wonder how many others we will get this time around.
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Post by elliott on Apr 25, 2020 15:59:27 GMT -5
I actually have about 25-30 matches I plan on voting for this time that didn't make my list last time.
Thus far it looks like Horace Boulder, King Kong Bundy, Maxx Payne, Jeff Jarrett, Andy Kaufman and Beulah McGillicutty will have 11 more matches combined on my list than Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa, Daniel Bryan, Vader, Jushin Liger and Kazuchika Okada. Lolololol.
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Post by Cap on Apr 25, 2020 16:17:30 GMT -5
You are a damned heathen.
Anyway... NL's post got me pondering a bit. I think we would need a bigger base of regular contributers and voters to make this work, but could a tier system of voting work? I too find that that making a list can feel frustrating. I mean I'm not even confident about #1 and #2, let alone the difference between #67 and #68. I'm just brain storming, but what are people's thoughts on voting in tiers. Something like.
Top 5 - 100 Points
6-15 - 90 Points
16-25 - 70 Points
26-40 - 40 Points
41 - 60 - 20 Points
61-80 - 10 Points
81 - 100 - 5 Points
Again, this is off the top of my head, so tons of adjustments could be made. I suspect if we did this with the voting population we can count on we would wind up with a TON of ties. However, if we got enough votes in we could do something where people could vote with a little less pressure, but still wind up with a list that reflects the group's opinions of wrestling. It would be easier to calculate too I think.
Just a thought... maybe its a dumb one.
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Post by bossrock on Apr 26, 2020 7:17:43 GMT -5
I think that would be a good idea.
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Post by Kadaveri on Apr 26, 2020 9:40:10 GMT -5
Doesn't that potentially make this problem worse as suddenly ranking something #40 or #41 makes a huge difference, so people are going to fret about who goes in the Top 40, Top 25 etc... At least if it's a straight ranking people don't really need to worry about the difference about ranking something #67 or #68 as it's highly unlikely to change anything. Hell yeah! Which 80s joshi matches are you looking at? Is Chigusa in all of them?
That made the Top 100 yes she is. The ones I've included are:
26/09/84 Chigusa Nagayo/Lioness Asuka vs. Devil Masami/Jaguar Yokota
22/08/85 Chigusa Nagayo vs. Devil Masami
28/08/85 Chigusa Nagayo vs. Dump Matsumoto 10/10/85 Bull Nakano/Dump Matsumoto vs. Chigusa Nagayo/Lioness Asuka
07/11/86 Chigusa Nagayo vs. Dump Matsumoto
I did consider the 22/08/85 Jaguar Yokota vs. Lioness Asuka and 07/14/88 Devil Masami vs. Shinobu Kandori matches, but they're just a bit under the Top 100.
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Post by elliott on Apr 26, 2020 12:08:25 GMT -5
Yeah, I'll have all of the matches you've listed other than Yokota vs Asuka. The only thing that jumps out at me that should definitely be included is Dump vs Yukari Ohmori 3/20/86. That's the only match I see as a stone cold lock that's missing. There are some other things I want to revisit though because I see them as pretty strong candidates including:
Crush Gals vs Lola Gonzalez & Tarantula 10/6/84
Jaguar Yokota vs La Galactica 2/27/85
Jaguar Yokota vs Pantera Suerena (Mexico City) 5/12/85
Jumping Bomb Angels vs Dump & Bull 8/22/85
Chigusa Nagayo vs Yukari Ohmori 6/22/86
Chigusa vs Lioness 2/26/87
Chigusa vs Devil Masami 4/15/87
Crush Gals vs Jumping Bomb Angels 9/14/87
Marine Wolves vs Bison Kimura & Grizzly Iwamoto 6/18/89
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Post by elliott on Apr 26, 2020 12:17:52 GMT -5
I can't help the fact that Beulah had a better understanding of wrestling psychology and pulled off exceedingly violent matches in a way Toshiaki Kawada never could. I would like it more if I could have 5 matches listed #1, 5 matches listed #2, 5 matches listed #3 etc. I would easily like to vote for 500 matches. And it would allow me to vote Piper/Valentine, WarGames, MS1-Chicana, DreamSlam & Queendom all at #1 which is what I want to do anyway. THat's the sort of tiering system I feel better about it. |
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Post by Cap on Apr 26, 2020 15:26:54 GMT -5
To Kadaveri's point, maybe. But would it offset some of the other anxieties since so many matches would be blocked as a single unit? I may fret about the difference between 40 and 41, but 41-60 wouldn't give me any trouble. Im sure some tier breaks would be more challenging than others for some. Again, just a thought.
Elliott... Man, that could be fun, but I don't think there is a chance in hell we get more than 5 people to put together a 500 match list. Also... I want nothing to do with calculating that.
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