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Post by bossrock on Aug 16, 2020 14:54:03 GMT -5
I know we are coming down to the wire with ballots, but something I've been pondering is what are the biggest misconceptions you believe to exist in wrestling? (I'm expecting Elliot's to say something along the lines of Kawada being a good wrestler, but he'd just be wrong.  ) My biggest would have to be the belief that late 90's-early 2000's King's Road was nothing but head drops and excess. I will agree that the Pillars were upping the ante by '97 and taking some unnecessary risks. There were also more "big move, sell, big move, sell" matches in NOAH. But I personally believe the criticisms are exaggerated. Not every match was Misawa-Kawada '97 which to me is the only real match that kinda lost the plot (still very good though). There was still clear escalation in moves and great selling. The Kobashi-Misawa matches were better than the mid-90's Kawada-Misawa matches. Jun was starting to establish himself as one of the best in the world. Newcomers like Vader and Takayama allowed for some variety with a David vs. Goliath style. Hase's stint allowed for more mat-oriented matches. I get if folks prefer the pre-'97 style, but I personally think there was still some really good shit in those later years. |
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Post by elliott on Aug 16, 2020 19:04:58 GMT -5
That lucha is confusing
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Post by Cap on Aug 16, 2020 19:19:52 GMT -5
I would agree with both of yours in principle at least. I can somewhat sympathize with the lucha one. Not so much that it is confusing, but that there are certain tropes/norms that do not translate. I am thinking of ref stuff because even though I LOVE lucha, I still have some trouble with that sometimes.
I would add that modern MOVEZ wrestling has no psychology. I think the notion that folks like Omega and the Bucks lack psychology is silly. You may not like it and it may not connect with you, but there is a logic and motivational coherence to what goes on.
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Post by bossrock on Aug 16, 2020 20:14:52 GMT -5
Definitely agree with the MOVEZ one. There's certainly lots of bad perpetrators, but when done well it can be super engaging.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2020 1:16:44 GMT -5
That Bret Hart was a boring promo. Sure he wasn't The Rock or Austin, but I've always felt his earnest delivery stood out among the more cartoonish stuff from that time. "Who are YOU to doubt El Dandy???"
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Post by Cap on Aug 17, 2020 8:57:22 GMT -5
Definitely agree with the MOVEZ one. There's certainly lots of bad perpetrators, but when done well it can be super engaging. I think a big part of this is that we see so much more indie wrestling now too. Not to say that many of those indie wrestlers aren't polished, but we are seeing a wrestlers develope a lot more now than even 5 years ago, let alone 25. Combine that with the fact that there is more pressure to produce a gif and that offense heavy wrestling is kind of the trend and the misconception makes sense. There is a lot of moves-for-moves-sake wrestling out there, but it because a catch-all to dismiss far too much. |
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Post by Cap on Aug 17, 2020 8:58:29 GMT -5
That Bret Hart was a boring promo. Sure he wasn't The Rock or Austin, but I've always felt his earnest delivery stood out among the more cartoonish stuff from that time. "Who are YOU to doubt El Dandy???" Totally agree with this. Bret was a good promo and even if he wasn't dripping with a really overt charisma his promos were sound, got guys over, and built things well. |
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Post by microstatistics on Aug 17, 2020 21:04:27 GMT -5
That Japanese crowds are historically quiet. I have zero idea why fans, commentators and even wrestlers continue to repeat this blatantly false and easily debunked talking point.
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Post by bossrock on Aug 17, 2020 21:23:42 GMT -5
That Japanese crowds are historically quiet. I have zero idea why fans, commentators and even wrestlers continue to repeat this blatantly false and easily debunked talking point. Not sure if this is the origin, but Meltzer claimed this is the reason crowds were quiet during Young Bucks matches instead of accepting they just weren't over in NJPW. So I'm guessing some of his listeners accepted this to be true. Meltzer has also been regularly mocked for this. |
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Post by elliott on Aug 17, 2020 21:28:10 GMT -5
That Japanese crowds are historically quiet. I have zero idea why fans, commentators and even wrestlers continue to repeat this blatantly false and easily debunked talking point. Foley's first book? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2020 21:33:34 GMT -5
That Japanese crowds are historically quiet. I have zero idea why fans, commentators and even wrestlers continue to repeat this blatantly false and easily debunked talking point. Yes, bizarre. Not sure if it's a sound issue but Golden Era US crowd seem to be the most quiet. |
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Post by microstatistics on Aug 20, 2020 17:11:05 GMT -5
That Japanese crowds are historically quiet. I have zero idea why fans, commentators and even wrestlers continue to repeat this blatantly false and easily debunked talking point. Not sure if this is the origin, but Meltzer claimed this is the reason crowds were quiet during Young Bucks matches instead of accepting they just weren't over in NJPW. So I'm guessing some of his listeners accepted this to be true. Meltzer has also been regularly mocked for this. Wow. This implies he tried to rewrite history to make his friends look less bad. No wonder people make fun of the Meltzer-AEW relationship. |
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Post by superstarsleeze on Aug 26, 2020 8:42:41 GMT -5
The Japanese crowds are quiet greatly pre-dates the Bucks. I can remember it as far back as late 90s/early 00s. Japanese crowds are more like Tennis crowds. They are rooting for a great match more often than not and they usually cheer whoever is getting beat up to will them to continue to compete. Tennis crowds will do the same thing exhorting the losing player onto continue the match. They way they applaud with a lot more clapping makes us feel that way. Obviously they do chant names and stuff, but there go to is the simple clap and the WOAH sound.
It could be that most New Japan was watched in the Dome which is historically poor for crowd dynamics, though I have seen Hashimoto get the Dome rocking.
It is like everyone said it a largely debunked talking point BUT the talking point has existed for decades. It was NOT created for the Young Bucks. It was a pre-existing talking point Dave used to bail out his friends.
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