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Post by elliott on May 14, 2021 2:08:44 GMT -5
Devil Masami & Jaguar Yokota vs Dynamite Kansai & Candy Okutsu (JWP - 6/15/97) Holy fuck I loved this match. Just a classic performance from everyone. Really brilliant psychology as you have 4 different characters with various styles, sizes & levels of experience and they just nail everything. Devil works with Kansai differently than the way she works with Okutsu. And vice versa. Really this is a universally great match and I think would be great for folks new to Joshi or folks who generally don't like it. This is worked at a great pace and has lots of awesome moves. But the character work & psychology really stands out. Highly recommended. www.youtube.com/watch?v=du7MYFW6lS8 |
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Post by microstatistics on May 16, 2021 18:19:03 GMT -5
Second. Funny, I was about to nominate this just around the time elliott did. Anyways, really good tag with the resurgent 80s legends taking on the bruiser Kansai and underdog Okutsu. I want to highlight Candy's performance, which was pretty outstanding. She could have easily got lost amongst the big names or just been a forgettable punching bag but she made her distinct presence felt.
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Post by mvz on May 18, 2021 1:46:23 GMT -5
I lost count of the number of cool moves Jaguar did in this match. This was a great performance from her. That’s not to say it was a one woman show, all four played their roles well and showed good work. This did seem especially accessible to most fans.
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Post by jetlag on May 19, 2021 1:43:12 GMT -5
It's a fun match, but would it even make a Top 100 for 1997?
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Post by elliott on May 19, 2021 1:50:25 GMT -5
Sure. But there's only 52 nominations from 1997 in the nominations sections so I guess you've got some nominating to do.
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Post by jetlag on May 19, 2021 1:59:39 GMT -5
Well, I'm definitely not gonna nominate a match that I think is the 67th best in any year  Maybe a 1997 project is on order. I know GAEA was awesome in 1997, but I've maybe watched 1/20th of the available CMLL from that year. It's something I've been holding off on watching. |
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Post by elliott on May 19, 2021 2:01:24 GMT -5
Well I for one want to watch your 67th best match from 1997 because its probably weird and awesome and no one has ever heard of it. So make the list hahahaha! |
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Post by Cap on May 19, 2021 7:43:27 GMT -5
Sure... but maybe keep that in a general recommendations thread rather than a nomination. I don't think we need 100 nominations per year.
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Post by elliott on May 19, 2021 20:22:19 GMT -5
I think the more nominations the better. We all like and value different things. For example, Jetlag doesn't think this particular match is even a top 100 match of 1997 but Microstatistics was about to nominate it for the top 100 all time project. MVZ watched it and had positive things to say to. Someone's 80th best match of a year might be someone else's #3.
I also think if 3 people praise a match and then someone comes in and just says its fun but not even a top 100 match for the year and no other explanation at all about the match or the year its more than fair to ask them to name the matches or ask for an explanation.
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Post by Cap on May 20, 2021 8:15:15 GMT -5
That isn't the point I'm making. This is probably a conversation for another thread, but I think there are people who are SERIOUSLY considering it or genuinely think it belongs in the conversation then it should be nominated. However, I think there should be a difference between "recommend" and "nominate". I'm probably guilty of conflating the two as well. But we run the risk of really cluttering the board and creating logistical burden if we nominate anything we think is good and someone else might think is elite. I don't think Bryan vs Reigns vs Edge from Mania is a real top 100 of all time contender or really in that conversation, but I think people should check it out because it is one of my favorite matches of the year. If someone nominated it I wouldn't mind, but I'm not going to nominate it because I don't think it belongs in that conversation. I've been pretty vocal about being open and broad approach since the beginning, but I also don't want the forum to become unruly and watered down. I don't question any of our nominations, but I do wonder if some of them function more as recommendations.
I mean we are probably on the path we are on regardless at this point. It isn't bad thing and hasn't created chaos. 2,000 nominations for a top 100 isn't outrageous. So, it is really neither here nor there.
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Post by tetsujin on May 24, 2021 17:39:22 GMT -5
Fuck this was great. I loved the character interactions, specially Devil and Jaguar trolling their foes whenever they can. Mixing those comedy spots with all this spectacular, brutal offense made the match a lot more enjoyable for me. I can't believe I've never even read about this match earlier, considering the big names it has and how good it is. Don't think it'll make my top 100, but it's definitely a great match and something I could see as a 1997 MOTYC, for sure (and that's saying a lot because 1997 fucking rocks when it comes to great matches). How much more of late-90s Masami and/or Yokota is out there? Is all that stuff as cool as this match? Because it could be a big game changer for my GWE list if it is, considering I already have them both pretty high just by the 80s alone.
Oh and by the way, I'm with Elliot on this one. I think this match deserves a nomination!
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Post by elliott on May 25, 2021 15:06:04 GMT -5
How much more of late-90s Masami and/or Yokota is out there? Is all that stuff as cool as this match? Because it could be a big game changer for my GWE list if it is, considering I already have them both pretty high just by the 80s alone.
In theory a good deal, its just a matter of finding it. Devil worked regularly until 2008 which would give her ~30 year career and she was good early. My mid 2000s Joshi viewing is pretty sparse, but I was watching GAEA reguarly up until 2002-3ish back in the day and she was always good there. In the mid 90s she started using an Undertaker style heel persona known as Super Heel Masami and your mileage may vary on that stuff, but its worth noting she didn't always use that character. I'd feel comfortable calling her great from probably 1982-2002 based on what I've seen. I suspect shes likely worth watching until the very end. And she's someone who I kinda want to find every match she ever had that made tape. Jaguar is even more insane as she is still regularly working today and is apparently still pretty good for a 59 year old. Jaguar is a totally unique case because of the forced retirement she literally retired in her prime and didn't work for 9 years. Then she came back and was awesome again for 4 years. Then I guess retired again for 4 years from 1999-2002. Then she came back in 2003 and has worked regularly ever since. Like WTF |
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Post by Cap on Jul 2, 2021 8:12:11 GMT -5
Finally got around to this recently and totally loved it. Jaguar and Devil are a fantastic team working all the dark arts of wrestling into the match and giving this structure and personality despite feeling very free flowing. I'm surprised how much Candy stood out among these names, flying around and punctuating a lot of the action. The finish great as Devil tries to throw Candy through the mat while Jaguar is just stomping on Dynamite. They win definitively, but they had to do a lot to get the victory.
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Post by KB8 on Jul 5, 2023 11:33:00 GMT -5
Is this online anywhere else? The youtube link is dead. I'm down the 90s Jaguar Yokota rabbit hole and this one looks like one of her more interesting matches of the decade.
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Post by jetlag on Jul 5, 2023 12:07:47 GMT -5
Is this online anywhere else? The youtube link is dead. I'm down the 90s Jaguar Yokota rabbit hole and this one looks like one of her more interesting matches of the decade.
At 1 hour 31 minutes
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Maybe a 1997 project is on order. I know GAEA was awesome in 1997, but I've maybe watched 1/20th of the available CMLL from that year. It's something I've been holding off on watching.
