|
|
Post by Cap on Sept 27, 2021 19:20:00 GMT -5
I know I know.... the match is sort of a hot topic these days. Big Dave gave it the full five and that set everyone off. I am not ready to go there yet, but I'll say this. I liked it a lot more on second watch than first... and I liked it a lot the first time. Broadly, this has the same strengths as Danielson's last match in the WWE. It is hard hitting and dynamic, but it's real strength is escalation and story telling. I think it would be easy to look at this and categorize it as back and forth, but I think they do a great job establishing how dynamic and explosive Kenny is vs how stiff and technical Danielson is. It is really a chess match in that way. This all gets nicely established right in the firest few minutes. I liked kenny slapping Danielson on the break, but I LOVED Danielson kicking Omega on the next two breaks. Kenny's big offensive spots (the snap dragon on the ramp followed by the crazy cool looking v trigger that sent him over the ropes, the buckle bomb onto the ropes instead of the corner, the top rope dragon suplex) where all timed and placed really well in the match to shift moment and escalate things well. Say what you will about Omega, but he has amazing physical timing. He flew on on Bryan's upper back more than once, kept everything tight, but clearly kept everything safe. I also thought they did a great job establishing Danielson as something akin to, but different from Daniel Bryan. The way he laid in those stomps and threw his kicks... it was all very toothy. Danielson's selling was also absolutely supreme here as well. I was legit a little worried about him in a few places, but it appears he was ok, just being awesome. This just accomplished so much in 30 minutes. It was simultaneously great on its own and left me buzzing for what they could do in the future.
|
|
|
|
Post by violentbydesign on Sept 27, 2021 19:36:31 GMT -5
It was good but I think it being a TV time match holds it back. Feels more like a really good teaser of an eventual PPV match.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cap on Sept 29, 2021 6:51:35 GMT -5
I tend to give points to matches for a few sort of tangential qualities. In this case, I think this match lived up to the unbelievable hype (not easy) and is a really good version of a few types of matches (tv, time limit, and predictable non-finish).
I think this match had a low degree of difficulty for general success. Folks were chomping at the bit for this to be great and were probably going to like it no matter what. It sort of feels like people were waiting to give it full marks and just wanted it to be special.
At the same time I think for success under a microscope this had a high degree of difficulty. Everyone expected greatness and delivering on that in a way that in a way that doesn't get smarky star raters like myself a bit disappointing is really hard I think. Doing it in a TV environment with commercials doesn't help. They had the advantage of picture in picture, but they timed it such that they weren't doing nothing, but you didn't miss important story beats. The near count out and how it was executed was really smart there. Finally, the world knew they were going 30 and they did it in such a way that left you genuinely curious as to who the better man was. It - to varying degrees shares qualities with the 30 minute draws of Suzuki/Sano and Kohsaka/Tamura and those are matches that are the absolute top shelf of wrestling to me. I wouldn't consider myself a "draw" guy (is there such a thing?), but because it is rare and to see it done well is even rarer, it can really add to a match.
Again, not putting this on my list at this point or anything. It is comfortably outside, but because it has been - even still - sort of a topic of conversation I was thinking about what I really liked about it.
|
|
|
|
Post by [Darren] on Oct 6, 2021 14:30:55 GMT -5
Assertion #1: This would be a better match if it wasn’t given away on tv.
Reality: This was AEW’s biggest live audience in one of the hottest boom periods wrestling has seen in two decades. There’s only 4 Ppvs a year. TV is BIG business. Fans have been clamoring for this match for years. These two know how to wrestle TV matches better than anybody. It’s fine.
Assertion #2: There should have been a definitive winner.
Reality: There is obviously a long term plan. You want multiple matches out of this feud. You can’t have your champ lose to somebody who just showed up and you can’t kill that guys heat. Also, these are two of the best wrestlers of their generation. They know how to work to a Broadway. It’s fine.
My only complaint was not calling time over the speaker but if they’ve never done it before, there’s no reason to start now.
|
|
|
|
Post by makaiclub on Oct 9, 2021 5:59:54 GMT -5
It was fairly cool to see Bryan work more aggressively and violent than he has done in years. You'd almost be forgiven if you said that Bryan was working heel, but obviously, Bryan subscribes to the theory that faces and heels shouldn't work in a set way, so you'd be incorrect. The time limit draw was telegraphed but they filled the time really well. I think my favourite stretch of wrestling was the first 15 minutes of the match, pre the break, where they really did as little as they could possibly do. Sticking mostly to hard chops, kicks and a bunch of assorted lock-ups. All of it was so compelling. Omega had a brief control spot that was a bit tepid but he quickly found his groove and spiked Bryan with a gross Dragon Suplex of the ramp way, followed by a V-Trigger. The second half was only small glimpses of what is in store for later matches. We got some insane moves like a dragon suplex off the top rope and an awesome LeBell lock spot but it fell apart in parts with some 50/50 “your turn, my turn” spots that didn't derail the match’s momentum, but rather stood out as the weakest points of the match. They were very haphazard and felt very ordinary and run of the mill compared to the rest of the bout. Nevertheless, this was a rare great match for AEW, especially on television. ****
|
|
|
|
Post by KB8 on Apr 22, 2022 8:55:05 GMT -5
I thought this was shockingly great, and I know there'll be some people reading that thinking I sound ridiculous. "How could you be shocked that this was great? Unless by SHOCKINGLY you mean you thought it was twelve stars rather than seven or whatever we're at now." I mean maybe it shouldn't shock me, but I know what I like and by all accounts this didn't sound like it would be that. So maybe it was the low-ish expectations. Either way I'll be fucked if I wasn't into it basically all the way through. It's probably the most I've ever enjoyed Omega - and I really mean ever - and I thought he more than held up his end. Most people will see the suggestion that he might not have as ludicrous, but if you're asking me if I'd rather watch them work a Bryan Danielson match or a Kenny Omega match then I'm picking the former all day, and there are a whole bunch of people I'd rather see opposite Bryan Danielson in a Bryan Danielson match than Kenny Omega. Actually I don't even think it was a Bryan Danielson match - in the way I'd usually think of a Bryan Danielson match - or at least it wasn't by the end. But none of that was what shocked me anyway. I've seen scrubs look good in a Bryan Danielson match or just generally against Bryan Danielson and Omega is better than, like, Delirious or someone. Prolly. The most shocking part is that I enjoyed Omega during the Bryan Danielson bits AND the Kenny Omega bits, and Kenny Omega Dream Match Epic is not something I'm desperate to watch at this stage of the game. To be honest, judging by the reaction for the first lock-up they could've worked any match and they'd have had people on strings, but they knew their audience to a tee and in the end gave them what they came to see, and they came to see Dream Match Epic.
All of the early build was great. They laced into each other and both of them had welts on chests, bruises on foreheads, scrapes on elbows, burns on backs, all the signs of something in which a pair of guys smashed each other to bits. It might've only been the idea or just the CONCEPT of Bryan Danielson getting to stretch out and be Bryan Danielson again that got me, but when he was bending Omega's wrist and stomping it into the mat it really did feel like the shackles had been cast off. Omega was a fun shithead through all of it and when it was his turn to dish out some damage he did it like he meant it. If the first half was the Bryan Danielson part of the match and the second half was the Kenny Omega part then I at least thought they segued from one to the other pretty seamlessly. I don't even remember a point where I thought "okay now we're in Omega's lane," but if it happened with the stuff on the ramp then they sure picked a hell of a transition for it. The Snapdragon was nuts but goodness christ that V-Trigger was fucking bonkers. He about launched himself from halfway up the ramp, downhill, and it looked like he fully caved in Danielson's temple. Just an unreal spot that I rewound half a dozen times. Danielson's selling after that was predictably amazing and I really loved Omega juuuust about accepting the count out only for his ego to take over and opt for the decisive victory instead. You know a man who calls himself the Best Bout Machine is meta enough that he'd realise a count out would cost him at least half a star. The buckle bomb was absolutely ludicrous and I thought he was for yeeting Danielson clean over the post. The biggest compliment I can pay to the last 10 minutes is that there were probably transitions that I'd usually find ropey, or kickouts that I'd usually find silly, or STUFF that I'd usually find excessive, but they really had me hooked and I was fully immersed in the moment. Like, I had a music teacher in high school who would say that music was both the best and worst thing that ever happened to her. It was her career, her life, her passion and the thing she enjoyed more than anything else in the world. But it sort of ruined a bunch of other things for her, like movies and television, because she'd be watching something and all she could think about was the musical score, the chords, all that other stuff that I don't understand because I am not and have never been a musician. Well pro wrestling is not my life or my career, but it is my passion, watching and talking and writing about it, and it's hard for me to just "turn off my brain" when it's there in front of me now because I can't help but think of all the nerdy carry on like selling and transitions and whatever else knocks about our heads as doofus wrestling fans on the internet. And as corny as it sounds, I just kind of...switched off for a while and didn't give a shit about any of that. It wasn't intentional, wasn't something I consciously made a decision to do, I just didn't think about it. For that to happen when watching one guy I think is great but have no real personal affinity for and another guy I quite often actively dread watching, that's kind of cool as fuck. Three and a half stars.
|
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Oct 21, 2023 22:01:49 GMT -5
I watched it. Not something I enjoy.
|
|
![[Darren] Avatar](http://storage.proboards.com/6851801/avatar/hoLSxfONUDvJEOQAHSfH.jpeg)
