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Post by elliott on Nov 26, 2021 15:54:48 GMT -5
I wasn't convinced Kingston was mad at Punk until the 4th time he screamed in his face while flipping the double middle fingers 😊
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Post by Cap on Nov 26, 2021 16:46:46 GMT -5
I think Elliott's comment might get to why I prefer Dragon v Kingston. I love this match. i think it is awesome, but if I'm nitpicking it could have maybe whispered a few times when it yelled at me. It will finish #3 at worst on my MOTY list.
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Post by elliott on Nov 26, 2021 17:41:11 GMT -5
Can someone get Bryan vs Kingston on the drive? I'm going to give Kingston a look since hes everyone's favorite now and maybe the Bryan match will be better for me.
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Post by lemming on Nov 26, 2021 17:47:39 GMT -5
I think Elliott missed the clear progression and nuance between all the scream-in-the-face-and-give-them-the-double-middle-finger spots, and the escalation in how Punk sold both the spots themselves and also the cumulative fatigue of having been flipped the double middle finger and had his face screamed in so many times. If you follow carefully, each one is also a distinct callback to previous times in AEW in which someone has screamed in someone else's face and given them the middle finger.
Seriously though, I didn't mind it because Eddie's resentment shone through in everything else he did too. I'd hold it against a match if it used those didactic 'I totally hate you right now' moments but the shouty dude otherwise wrestles pretty normally. But here both guys just unloaded on each other and everything they did (other than the Guerrero tribute from Punk discussed above) was nasty. Kingston's persona is an overly heart on sleeve type so I can buy those outburst spots from him so long as he keeps slugging peeps in the face too.
(His awesome match with Danielson wasn't short on middle finger spots either now you mention it...)
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Post by elliott on Nov 26, 2021 18:08:33 GMT -5
That first paragraph was tremendous. Well played
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Post by microstatistics on Nov 26, 2021 19:28:11 GMT -5
Great start with the preemptive Aja Kong backfist and Kingston's malicious laughter. I also liked how Kingston followed that up by trying to rip Punk's ear off. The rest of the action was relatively pedestrian though and lacking the viciousness associated with the best hateful brawls.
I agree that the multiple flipping the bird spots were silly as hell. Punk sold well throughout but his offense didn't look that convincing. Kingston was the better worker overall.
It was a cool throwback to the 80s style with an infusion of modern elements I guess and a solid match but I wouldn't give it more than ***1/4 or so.
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Post by [Darren] on Nov 26, 2021 20:42:20 GMT -5
The build to this was on-point and the match nailed every beat. There’s some great post-match footage as well that color it even deeper.
I know it’s a work but Eddie Kingston made me wanna see CM Punk get his teeth kicked in.
CM Punk is fighting to win. Eddie Kingston just wants to fight. Punk goes for the handshake because he still doesn’t get it. He thinks just because they had a match that their beef is squashed and they can be cool now. Punk is out of touch with Kingston’s perspective but he thinks Kingston is out of touch with his reality because wins don’t matter to him.
This is a story of two different perspectives. These two men had two different matches with each other at the same time. They told a more nuanced story in 11 minutes or so than the Elite could tell in an hour.
This match made me feel stuff. I like when matches do that.
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Post by Cap on Nov 27, 2021 9:12:05 GMT -5
Can someone get Bryan vs Kingston on the drive? I'm going to give Kingston a look since hes everyone's favorite now and maybe the Bryan match will be better for me. I'll put it up soon.
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Post by Cap on Nov 27, 2021 9:22:25 GMT -5
Actually, I just did it and realized someone else already uploaded it earlier this month. It is available.
Interesting reviews of this match. I am - as I said - definitely closer to those who have big praise for this. The one thing I would add (and this is more of an overall comment on Kingston's current form) is that I love how both matches use Kingston's finisher (that backfist to the future - wish they would/could call it that in AEW) really well. Hitting the ground running with it here let them have a sprint in the middle of a show with lots of matches, many that went a little long and the match still stood out and stole the show a bit. Both men flexing just how valuable they are to AEW right now.
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Post by nintendologic on Nov 27, 2021 15:48:11 GMT -5
I wasn't convinced Kingston was mad at Punk until the 4th time he screamed in his face while flipping the double middle fingers 😊 A brawler from the streets expressing disdain for his opponent in a heated grudge match is a bad thing? This is almost as bad a take as not liking Kawada's KO selling. Actually, come to think of it, Kingston probably won't do much for you since Kawada is his favorite wrestler.
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Post by elliott on Nov 27, 2021 16:09:31 GMT -5
Instead of screaming at him and flipping him off he could have used that energy to continue attacking his opponent and that would have similarly expressed disdain?
Perhaps in a heated grudge match that already included cooperative tribute spots doing the double middle fingers/face scream 4x in a 13 minute match was overkill? Once, sure. Twice you're pushing it. 3x is too much 4x is just stupid.
I watched Kingston/Danielson and thought it was much better and in particular Kingston was excellent in that one.
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Post by [Darren] on Nov 27, 2021 16:15:33 GMT -5
The Eddie Guerrero tribute highlights my take on why I think the match is great because Punk is such a glory seeking prick and so terrible at reading the room that he goes for a terrible Eddie tribute while the crowd is chanting for a different Eddie. I only watched it live so If somebody could remind me of more tribute spots
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Post by nintendologic on Nov 27, 2021 18:12:31 GMT -5
Upon revisiting the match, two of Kingston's middle fingers were gestures of defiance after absorbing Punk's offense. They were basically fighting spirit spots. The third was a direct response to a middle finger from Punk. The fourth was a precursor to a punch flurry with Punk on the top turnbuckle. Each one made sense in the context of the match. Even if you think one or two should have been done away with, we're talking about something that lasts a second or less. It's hardly something to get worked up over.
As for tribute spots, in addition to the three amigos which has been discussed ad nauseam, there was the Cena spot from Punk and the Frye/Takayama spot. The former was done to get Punk over as a subtle heel and emphasize that he had become what he had formerly railed against. Like I said in the rewatching thread, the latter spot is always going to be somewhat performative, but it felt as organic as it can possibly be here as both men were going for the knockout blow because they felt their opponent was on the ropes. None of them struck me as overly cooperative. They were only cooperative in the sense that every pro wrestling spot is cooperative.
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Post by Cap on Nov 27, 2021 18:24:28 GMT -5
I think NL has a read similar to mine. I didn't mind any of the tribute spots and I didn't mind Kingston's defiance/hatred/middle fingers etc. I think they all brought something to this match. For me though, maybe one less ingredient or just maybe a little lesson the nose and this would be my MOTY and I'd be right there with the rest.
Darren's read of the Eddie tribute spot is kind of mine. It is probably something that I'll like more the further removed from the show we are. There were a lot of Eddie tribute spots. I go back and forth on the Cena thing. I did think it was implemented really well and it played really well into Punk not getting why some people don't like him. I still didn't LOVE it. I did love the Frye/Takayama spot because it felt organic and right in line with the energy of the match.
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Post by [Darren] on Nov 27, 2021 18:32:14 GMT -5
The Cena references were part of the build and still work without that knowledge. The other is over my head so I can’t comment. Those aren’t cooperative in a negative sense like helping each other to the top rope to do a contrived high spot. There’s plenty of things that don’t sit well with me that take me out of matches. So I get it if it doesn’t work for some people. This is just one of the greatest matches I can remember seeing. It’s a feeling more than a set of logical reasons.
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