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Post by elliott on Dec 11, 2017 4:59:11 GMT -5
Jushin Liger vs Shinjiro Ohtani (IWGP Jr Title - NJPW - 2/9/1997)
Classic juniors match that holds up to a certain extent. I used to think it was one of the 5-10 best matches ever and the clear best juniors match. I don't think its that anymore and I do think it has some flaws. But this is a great match that deserves consideration and is better than a number of matches we've already nominated.
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Post by Cap on Dec 11, 2017 8:03:45 GMT -5
Second
Easy nomination. I really enjoy this match still. I think it holds up fairly well. Its another really top Ohtani performance for me. Liger is always a guy who has his working boots on. Real shot at making the back half of my list.
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Post by childs on Jan 12, 2018 11:57:52 GMT -5
This was a classic and will make my ballot. Previous review:
This match worked so well, both as 27 minutes of exciting action and as an important chapter in their rivalry. Liger was great. Everything he did looked great. And yet, Otani was better. Technically, he had an answer for everything Liger could throw at him. But he wasn't mature enough to take it home. He had to dangle his chin out there like proto-Anderson-Silva, and that shit wasn't going to fly with a proud champion. The finishing sequence was so great, with each palm strike resounding as a nail in Otani's coffin of hubris. One of my favorite things in sports is watching a team or athlete gradually learn how to be a contender. Liger-Otani has always struck me as one of the best wrestling dramatizations of that dynamic, albeit without the perfect payoff win for Otani. For me, this is probably neck-and-neck with Liger-Sano for best juniors match of the decade.
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Post by superstarsleeze on Mar 24, 2019 20:21:51 GMT -5
J-Crown Champion Jushin Thunder Liger vs Shinjiro Otani - NJPW 2/9/97
Jushin Liger's take on King's Road. Otani opens as characteristic with his overly dramatic handshake. Austin says you can predict how good a match will be based on the lock up. Well that's a ***** lock up. Great drive in the legs. I have seen this match twice before loved it both times. To call this Mitsuharu Liger vs Shinjiro Kobashi sounds insulting, but it feels that way. It is a bit inaccurate. Ohtani sort of combines the prickly wrestling style of Kawada with this histrionics of Kobashi. Ohtani challenges Liger to come off the ropes and hits a spin kick. He shows some high Wrestling IQ there, but applauds himself instead of following up. Liger dropkicks the knee and zeros in on the leg with his classic inverted deathlock. Another thing separates this match from King's Road is the commitment to double limb psychology and mat works for the first half of the match. The match is also nasty. Liger is repeatedly kneedropping the bad leg and putting boot on the face of Ohtani in the corner. Ohtani fires up in the corner and he bootscrapes Liger. There is definitely a lot of heat here. Liger tries to go back to the knee to quell this rally, but Ohtani fires back with some head rocking shots. Then much like Misawa's mythical elbow, Liger's Shotei bails him out of trouble as he unloads with palm strikes from both wings as Ohtani is trapped in the corner. With Ohtani reeling, Liger goes back to the knee. Ohtani escapes and rubs his forearm bone in the face and grabs a top wristlock then begins to zero in on the left arm of Liger. Why? That Shotei! A very similar strategy that many of Misawa's opponents would use to neutralize the vaunted Emerald Elbow.
This is a good change of pace from the perfunctory matwork that usually fills time at the beginning of New Japan matches each man is working a limb with strong selling from both men. Liger is a really expressive seller both verbally and physically even though he is masked. There is one toehold that Ohtani applies with his knee across the ankle, my God you think Liger was having acid poured on it. Great stuff! This allows Ohtani take Liger back down with an armbar. Ohtani cross-armbreaker! Liger gets the ropes immediately but continues the verbal selling as Ohtani would relinquish the hold. Ohanti is standing on the face and throat of Liger. I like how chippy this is. Ohtani throws him in the corner. He crowds him and bullies him. He is just hitting him with these big open handed blows. He is trying to make a statement. Those nasty bootscrapes in the corner, but no running facewash instead of giving Liger one moment to breathe while running, he brings out and drops him with a Single Arm DDT. Wise move. He wants the Cross Armbreaker, but settles for snapping it over his shoulder and Liger sells this like a million bucks.
I think my one criticism of this match as I am watching it for a second time today is the lack of escalation and big time transitions to make this feel really epic. Ohtani's arm work is really tight and fierce and he is adding in good prickly work, but there is not a sense that he is building to a big arm submission. Liger for his part sells wicked well and he goes back to the leg enough for his hope spots to tie back to the beginning. He wrenches in some toeholds as the man fighting underneath I think he does his job expertly. When Ohtani applies the Crossface it does not feel like a nearfall, but just another hold even though it is tight same goes for the noogie to the arm. All great work, but does not feel huge.
When I was watching earlier today, I knew around the 15 minute time call, they were going to start busting out the bombs. There were no highspots in the first 15 minutes. Liger starts nailing Shoteis in the corner (great fighting through the pain selling), Kappo Kick (instead of the Shotei he hits the Kappo Kick) and then the trademark Superman Dive from the top rope to the floor and then the powerbomb on the floor. The Powerbombs (Ohtani hits one too) on the floor and the whip to railing feels very All Japan. Liger swatting Ohtani out of the way of a springboard dropkick feels All Japan too, but the immediate La Magistral cradle feels more Juniorish and gives it a hybrid vibe. I like them trading nearfall cradles here. Liger hits a Frankensteiner but Ohtani rolls through. Liger goes for the German, but Ohtani lands on his feet. Still too early and Ohtani immediately pounces with a spinning heel kick. The best sequence of the match so far. It feels sudden and unpredictable. I like how Ohtani hits a snap German suplex right afterwards. He didnt go for the release. He is not taking any chances. Here comes those Ohtani histrionics as he is psyching himself up and makes the cardinal mistake of Irish Whipping your opponent. He gave Liger free space and Liger NAILS a lariat, but with the bad arm. Great selling by Liger as he cant capitalize. Liger hits his first big bomb a Ligerbomb for two and Ohtani is definitely on Weird Street as Kal Rudman would say. Ohtani has a great sell of this on the apron as Liger pulls him in. Liger wants the brainbuster, but Ohtani struggles against. The Suplex Struggle is a trademark All Japan spot. Ohtani floats over and it is another snap German. Loving his take on the German. He is lying in wait. Liger makes it to his feet BANG! Springboard Dropkick to the back. Premature celebration. Ohtani thinks he has it in the bag. Dragon Suplex 1-2-NO! Here come the waterworks! Ohtani is beside himself. Ohtani still calling out to the crowd. He wants another Dragon Suplex, but Liger scrambles for the ropes. Ohtani trying to fight, but Liger breaks free. SHOTEI~! Ohtani takes a wicked bump for this! 1-2-NO! Big time nearfall! Liger hits two Fisherman Busters, would have liked to seen more struggle there as Ohtani is ragdolling. On the third bomb, a Brainbuster, Ohtani reverses his weight. Ohtani puts Liger on the top, which is dumb never give your opponent the high ground. He tries desperately to scale the ropes but three times Liger knocks him down. On the fourth try, he hits a barrage of headbutts and a Frankensteiner. Well fuck me, it worked out for the little bastard, but at what cost. SPRINGBOARD HEEL KICK! 1-2-NO! Ohtani had a weird reaction to this. He acted like he won, but he clearly didnt. He collapses. He just keeps covering Liger. He is in denial. Ohtani hit him with his best shots and he cant beat the Beast God. Liger collapses trying to get up. Ohtani goes for another Dragon Suplex, but Liger breaks free...SHOTEI~! Ohtani sticks his chin out. Now they are channeling Choshu/Hashimoto. Liger hits the MUTHA OF ALL SHOTEI! 1-2-3! Jushin Thunder Liger retains!
The finishing stretch is truly great one of the best Liger has ever crafted in his matches. Ohtani gets TWO big time runs late and both times you feel like he has a really strong shot to dethrone the Ace. Liger uses the Shotei twice to break free from the Dragon Suplex and turn it back to his favor. The first Ohtani transition landing on his feet on a release German followed by a spinning heel kick was genius. The second one did not feel earned or big. The beginning of the match I really liked and it made a lot of sense. Ohtani going after the arm to prevent the Shotei was smart and Liger going after the legs of Ohtani who uses two springboard moves also smart. Let's be honest if we JIP to Liger splashing off the top rope to the floor do we need to the know the beginning of the match. I say not really besides some arm wringing by Liger it is not that important. This is a small nitpicky complaint because I thought transitioned well between the two and the work was high end. I thought they do a strong narrative of the extremely talented, but immature upstart challenger against the veteran champion with the great equalizer (the Shotei) incredibly well. After much deliberation, I am going to say it falls just shy of ***** for me, ****3/4, still I think this will make my Top 100 matches of all time.
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Post by Cap on Mar 24, 2019 20:55:49 GMT -5
This is in a folder on my computer along with about 15 other matches that aren't currently in my top 12(ish), but i really want to check out one more time to see if it belongs and where. Unfortunately so few of those are going to get that shot. Right now its on the outside looking in. I have it as my third favorite liger match and only two liger matches are presenting making it.
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Post by superstarsleeze on Mar 24, 2019 21:49:35 GMT -5
I have this at #3 too behind Liger vs Sasuke 7/8/94 and Liger vs Sano 8/10/89. What do you have?
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Post by Cap on Mar 25, 2019 5:48:20 GMT -5
Liger/Samurai (4/30/92) and Liger/Sano (8/10/89). I actually haven't watched the Sasuke match in a really long time. That is another thing I am realizing. Some stuff is getting left off because I haven't seen it and other stuff is getting left off because I haven't seen it in so long that I am not sure how to compare it to the rest of my list.
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Post by lemming on Nov 12, 2023 16:04:41 GMT -5
I voted this #74 this year.
I've actually rewatched since the ballot and it didn't hit quite so highly with me as in past years, but still a classic junior bouts between two greats. Maybe it goes just a bit longer than it needed to as it'd have been a total barnstormer if edited down to ~20 mins say. The work itself is always solid, just lacks a bit of direction at times in the first half. Whatever, it escalates big in the second half and builds to an all timer of a finish.
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Post by makaiclub on Mar 24, 2024 14:23:30 GMT -5
Winner face’s Kanemoto at a future date. It’s almost 30 years later so the result may be an obvious one but let’s pretend nonetheless. Liger and Otani once again start with an aggressive lock up, almost their version of Choshu and Hashimoto’s lock up at the Tokyo Dome. Liger is able to push Otani into the ropes before the break and restart. This transitions into a great technical exchange where Liger begins to work the leg with Otani defending, initially locking on a double wrist lock before Liger escaped. The whole segment was really up my alley except for one instance where Otani broke an americana to tie Liger’s arm in the top rope. It was a convoluted set up and unnecessary as Otani took Liger back to the floor. But once they returned to the mat, they went right back to working holds. The chain wrestling from the cross armbreaker to the omoplata to the modified surfboard was cool. They didn’t rush through a series of holds either, they worked them with serious intent behind them: the intent to submit and defend them and apply a hold themselves. Otani gets nasty at one point, throwing hard palm strikes, which Hittori (the ref) is against. He then snaps Liger’s arm across his shoulder almost as an attempt to break the arm. The match starts to progress further into the high spot style around the 15 minute mark. Liger, usually the master technician in the match, is bested by Otani, forcing him to explore further options like powerbombing Otani on the outside floor. But Otani is game for that as well. He hits one of his own and is able to sustain his early momentum into this part of the match too. Otani lands on his feet on a release german and blasts Liger with a spinning wheel kick. Otani throws bomb after bomb, trying desperately to beat Liger but Liger continues to survive. Nearfalls get closer and closer with the crowd response getting louder and louder. Otani’s momentum seems to run out when Liger lands a thunderous palm strike and multiple brainbusters, for more nearfalls. Otani continues to struggle and fight - and boy does he fight - but finds himself unable to put Liger away. The crowd rallies behind Otani, Kanemoto wills him on from the outside, Otani gains all the confidence in the world before he attempts the dragon suplex but can’t clasp the arms and Liger hits a palm strike, and another and another. Liger hits 9 palm strikes before hitting a running one for number 10 and pins Otani. Amazing finish. I think Otani winning would’ve made this perfect but I think making Otani just one move away works ALMOST just as well. This was sensational. Fantastic grappling which then turned into a Junior Heavyweight classic with amazing storytelling. Otani beat Liger in every way. He had everything behind but but he couldn’t finish the job. Absolutely great performance by Otani. Liger was a strong partner, one would want in this role. Incredible really. ****3/4
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