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Post by fxnj on May 14, 2023 22:05:37 GMT -5
Reading some posts from the time since the 2019 vote, I feel like this board has a really weird relationship to 90's AJPW. Although most people have several matches from this era they'll openly admit rank amongst the greatest ever, I've seen almost as many openly express disinterest in watching for hidden gems or revisiting the era much beyond matches they're already very high on. I am curious what leads people to feel this way, as this era remains the most rewarding for me to rewatch for the deep character work and high level of skill on display. The idea that it's been "discussed to death" has never really held with me for how nobody seems to take the same attitude towards older WWE and WCW matches. Besides that, 2010s/2020s NJPW seems to have overtaken it was the new favorite among hardcore fans, and I've seen far more talk about the big Okada matches than there ever was around stuff like Misawa/Kawada. So, what's going on?
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Post by lemming on May 15, 2023 3:34:07 GMT -5
Been ages since I last did a deep dive but I still have a lot of fondness for it. If I see someone pimping a 90s AJPW match that I don't remember seeing or don't remember loving them I'll stick it high up on my watch list.
Matt D has been reviewing every match from 1989 and 1990 AJPW over on the DVDR forum which I've enjoyed following.
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Post by fxnj on May 15, 2023 5:09:44 GMT -5
I haven't checked DVDVR in years, so thanks for the recommendation. Awesome thread. Makes me want to go deep into that period again.
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Post by elliott on May 15, 2023 9:34:16 GMT -5
I dunno, 90s AJPW is better represented than any decade from any promotion on the list every time we do it. 6/9/95 wins every year. If it seems like there's more discussion on modern NJPW it's probably because those matches are more recent.
Personally outside of Jumbo & Hansen I don't really like any of the main players in 90s AJPW & excluding Hansen vs Kobashi and the Kroffat/Kikuchi vs Can Ams match, I don't plan on voting for any of it but I've also seen fuck tons of 90s AJPW including recently revisiting literally all of the matches Jumbo, Hansen, Kobashi, Misawa, Taue & Williams had with each other and random handheld stuff Matt has encouraged me to watch.
I also don't like modern NJPW.
What we're really missing is PUerto Rico.
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Post by tetsujin on May 16, 2023 17:49:30 GMT -5
I'm as big of a fan of 90s AJPW as anyone, but I completely understand and even find interesting the idea of the fatigue. When something's been considered amazing for so long, eventually you just want to explore new stuff as well. Also, something more personal but that I consider to be very important as well, is the fact that the more we know of AJPW's ringwork philosophy and the human body and injuries in general, the least I enjoy some of their matches. Like, I don't like to watch a match and then finding out an old interview about Kawada saying he was unconscious for a couple of seconds or that Misawa collapsed backstage right after a match, for example. I don't want that level of danger in my wrestling, specially considering that there has already been terrible consequences. So, the more the time passes, the more I dislike the overall thinking of "what a badass and epic guy X was for wrestling in that condition/ending the match being that broken!". I see a gift on Twitter about an atrocious looking neck bump and I can't say it's any good.
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Post by mrjmml on May 16, 2023 18:13:50 GMT -5
I'm as big of a fan of 90s AJPW as anyone, but I completely understand and even find interesting the idea of the fatigue. When something's been considered amazing for so long, eventually you just want to explore new stuff as well. Also, something more personal but that I consider to be very important as well, is the fact that the more we know of AJPW's ringwork philosophy and the human body and injuries in general, the least I enjoy some of their matches. Like, I don't like to watch a match and then finding out an old interview about Kawada saying he was unconscious for a couple of seconds or that Misawa collapsed backstage right after a match, for example. I don't want that level of danger in my wrestling, specially considering that there has already been terrible consequences. So, the more the time passes, the more I dislike the overall thinking of "what a badass and epic guy X was for wrestling in that condition/ending the match being that broken!". I see a gift on Twitter about an atrocious looking neck bump and I can't say it's any good. Wrestling fans tend to glorify injuries and I understand why but safety always comes first. |
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Post by fxnj on May 17, 2023 5:45:17 GMT -5
Yeah, that point about injuries makes a lot of sense. Didn't really consider that, tbh.
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Post by elliott on May 17, 2023 12:56:37 GMT -5
The neck bumps & injuries suck & tie into the issues I have with 90s AJPW being too excessive. It's not just the neck bumps & excess though. I think there are a lot of bad selling choices (especially as they push forward through the decade & start with the move-pop up no sell-move-sell sequences). The tone & presentation is just not what I'm looking for out of pro-wrestling. I also think they're fairly limited stylistically but that has to do with the booking & Baba's preferences.
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Post by club on May 18, 2023 14:23:34 GMT -5
The neck bumps & injuries suck & tie into the issues I have with 90s AJPW being too excessive. It's not just the neck bumps & excess though. I think there are a lot of bad selling choices (especially as they push forward through the decade & start with the move-pop up no sell-move-sell sequences). The tone & presentation is just not what I'm looking for out of pro-wrestling. I also think they're fairly limited stylistically but that has to do with the booking & Baba's preferences. The presentation of the product is an interesting point. Again way back I loved All Japan as a kind of antithesis to WWE. These days I'm not concerned about that. On the whole though, it's more a case of appreciating a lot more wrestling from a lot more places rather than souring on AJPW. |
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Post by mrjmml on May 18, 2023 14:47:46 GMT -5
The neck bumps & injuries suck & tie into the issues I have with 90s AJPW being too excessive. It's not just the neck bumps & excess though. I think there are a lot of bad selling choices (especially as they push forward through the decade & start with the move-pop up no sell-move-sell sequences). The tone & presentation is just not what I'm looking for out of pro-wrestling. I also think they're fairly limited stylistically but that has to do with the booking & Baba's preferences. The presentation of the product is an interesting point. Again way back I loved All Japan as a kind of antithesis to WWE. These days I'm not concerned about that. On the whole though, it's more a case of appreciating a lot more wrestling from a lot more places rather than souring on AJPW. This is what has been happening to me since 2016, it's just a consequence of watching more wrestling from all over the world. |
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