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Post by Cap on Dec 4, 2017 19:42:06 GMT -5
Billy Robinson vs Jumbto Tsuruta (NWA United National HW Championship - AJPW - 3/5/1977)
These are two of my favorite wrestlers of all time and I sort of think they are perfect for one another. It doesn't quite rank among my favorite matches of the decade (at least at this moment), but it is very likely to make an appearance on my list. This match really excels at building urgency and fire as they go. Just when you think they are hitting the crescendo they amp it up for the homestretch again. This is really technically strong, has some teeth to it, and is laid out well.
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Post by elliott on Dec 4, 2017 21:57:26 GMT -5
I second this nomination while at the same time admitting that I haven't watched it in forever. I remember really loving it when I first saw it and thinking Robinson & Jumbo matched up really well with each other. But I haven't seen it in over 15 years. I'm not as high on Jumbo as some and not as low as others. There are pockets of his career I don't really want to watch, but I've always really liked him in the 70s as the quick learning, freak athlete matching up against these polished legends who can lead him through classic matches.
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Post by stunninggrover on Jan 10, 2018 0:19:31 GMT -5
I would like to see this match on the list of nominees. Billy Robinson was as great as you’d expect him to be in 1977. Tsuruta had shown his progression by 1977, compared to his first few years in the business. Robinson did some great bumping and selling for Tsuruta, including a spectacular bump over the top rope after an elbow smash by Tsuruta. The first fall was won by Tsuruta in 11 minutes. 7 minutes later, Robinson won the second fall. Tsuruta fought hard in the third fall, but Robinson was able to pin Tsuruta four minutes into the third fall to win the match and the NWA United National Championship. Great match. Arguably one of the three best matches of 1977. ****1/2
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Post by fxnj on Jul 24, 2018 7:53:18 GMT -5
Not a bad match or anything, but a bit of a disappointment as I was hoping for it to be on par with Robinson's mat classics with Bock, Gagne, and Inoki, and the matwork doesn't come close to that level. It's basically a clash between Billy's European style and Jumbo's NWA style. By that, I mean you've got Robinson doing all kinds of cool counter attempts while Jumbo is just kind of content to spend the match sitting in these basic holds. I really wasn't a fan of how Jumbo worked the 2nd fall. After winning the first fall, he just seemed content to spend a long stretch sitting in a side headlock while Billy tried various ways to counter until he finally scored a backdrop. You could say the psychology was that Jumbo was trying to cruise to a win knowing he had the upperhand, but it would have been a far more exciting match if he instead tried to press the advantage and try to win two falls straight. Besides that, I also disliked how the match was layed out with them abandoning the matwork entirely and going all out with big throws for the finish run of every fall. Whereas they did a good job making everything on the mat looked hard fought, the big moves comparatively seemed to come too easy. It really doesn't feel natural to have one section where they do nothing but matwork and then another with nothing but throws instead of making more effort to blend them together. Despite all that, it's prime Robinson and there's a certain baseline to how good a long mat-based match him can be. ***1/2
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Post by wrestlingfan on Jan 3, 2019 21:53:38 GMT -5
I prefer their matches from 76 and 84 in AWA. Good match but not great.
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Post by mvz on Oct 1, 2021 5:23:59 GMT -5
I liked this better than the 3/11 match, and I guess this one is more well regarded. Jumbos performance here was more focused and less mannered. Robinson was great, I loved his work countering the Boston Crab.
I have to disagree with the reviewer above who didn’t like the bomb throwing toward the end of every fall. It may be a matter of preference but I think it makes sense and makes the match more exciting.
Either way, this was worth watching and am excited to see more from both during this period.
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Post by club on Aug 2, 2022 15:05:27 GMT -5
You see the structure of matches going from hold and matwork to running about and bomb-throwing in so many matches, but here it built to that climax really smartly. The way it shifted pace and momentum when Robinson finally found an opening in Tsuruta's headlock-based offence in the second fall was great. After he stuns him with a backdrop, Robbo smells blood and goes on a tear from there.
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Post by mrjmml on May 5, 2023 9:01:50 GMT -5
My MOTY of 1977. It's better than Lawler vs Dundee 1977 for me, a great match from two of the best wrestlers of the 70's, it's a candidate for my top 100.
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Post by fxnj on Jul 1, 2023 9:14:58 GMT -5
I liked this a lot more this time around. The issues I had before with Jumbo's passivity actually came across as part of the story being told instead of a flaw in the match. Jumbo just wasn't as active or as focused as he should have been, which culminated in him losing this match. The match is mainly built around Robinson and his catch wrestling, and it's magnificent. 70's Jumbo is known as one of wrestling's great athletes, but Robinson seems to have no issues keeping up with him in terms of speed despite being nearly 40 years old, which is incredible to witness. The technique and detail work involved in the holds is awe-inspiring as well. Even the parts I complained about before where it's mostly Jumbo sitting around in holds are great for all the work Billy is constantly doing on the bottom, and there's some nice details like Jumbo trying to drive his knee into Robinson's face while in an arm lock. Maybe it's because of all the lucha I've been watching and the looser style of matwork just not being for me, but it felt like an incredible spot at one point where Jumbo has Robinson in a headlock, Robinson moves around and I notice some clear space visible, and Robinson just pulls his head out a few seconds later. The easy approach to bombs didn't bother me either this time around. Just like in a shoot, you don't always see linear escalation and knowing that things could suddenly heat up at any moment added to the tension. Post match is worth watching as well with how pissed Jumbo is at losing the title. A bit of a harbinger for grumpy Jumbo. Feels like a top 100 candidate.
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Post by elliott on Aug 30, 2023 21:13:06 GMT -5
Watched this for the first time in over 20 years and it's awesome. Robinson looks incredible & it's one of the best 70s Jumbo performances too.
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Post by fxnj on Apr 13, 2024 1:28:05 GMT -5
My prior review now reads like mostly nonsense to me. I have no idea what it is with this match, but it seems like every time I watch it I come away with significantly different opinions. Parallel to that, I'm also noticing I end up far higher on it every time I rewatch it. Fuck top 100, this is easily top 50 or higher.
I came back to this after having watched a bunch of the hyped Wrestlemania weekend matches back-to-back with the weekend UFC, ONE, and BKFC cards to make the experience a little more tolerable. I was hoping that modern wrestling would finally click with me from sampling a bunch of different styles en masse. Instead, I ended up blown away at how great the ONE cards were, while also feeling depressed at how far standards had fallen for what's considered great pro wrestling and unable to shake the feeling of how shitty so many current wrestlers' execution looked when compared to shoot fights. That experience has pretty much killed my interest in keeping up with current in-ring product. Still, I want to keep liking wrestling, and so I put together a double feature of two classic Jumbo matches to get my mood back on track. The original plan was to watch Jumbo/Brisco and Jumbo/Kawada, but I swapped out the Brisco match for this as I really wanted something that would blow me away.
The thing that immediately struck me in watching the first fall for this was how explosive the movements looked. My aforementioned review makes this sound as if it's one of those matches primarily built on guys sitting on the mat and working holds, but there's far more going on than that. The tempo felt very reminiscent of the shoot fights I mentioned, the closest comparison possibly being what you'd see in a heated shoot grappling match. You get quick scrambles for position interspersed with tentativeness and tension once they return to neutral and look for new openings. Sometimes those scrambles resulted in one guy getting a hold and slowing things down, but other times you'd get a throw or even some striking. Like a real fight, it wasn't a linear progression. Billy was more of a show-off than I remembered. He was out there throwing bitch slaps and at one point even gave up his arm to Jumbo in a hammerlock position before doing a cartwheel after a quick escape. The other thing that stuck out was that Billy had every reason to be a show-off with how fucking smooth his execution was on everything he did. The best way I can put it into words with my shoot-fighting colored interpretation is to say that if these moves were viable in a shoot, Billy's execution here would be exactly how I imagine stuff would look. The way he executes that judo throw is pure poetry in motion. I've read interviews with people who've trained under Billy who go on about what a stickler he was for hammering correct execution into his students, constantly forcing them to repeat moves if even the slightest details looked off. He really walked the walk here. Billy's bumping and selling was also tremendous. A lot of it may just be the hard ring these guys looked to be working on (WoS stuff kind of has similar treatment of bumps to this), but still every bump he took was treated as devastating. The bulldog that ended the fall for him was just a regular flat back bump, but it didn't feel any less impactful than the ones I've seen Kobashi take right on his head.
Second fall is probably the reason why I keep misremembering this as a slower mat based affair. After the unexpectedly action-packed first fall, Jumbo spends the bulk of the second fall working a headlock. I think the idea is he's trying to follow up on his success with the bulldog in the first fall by continuing work on Robinson's neck. An alternative interpretation to continue the shoot fighting analogies is that he's doing the equivalent of a fighter who knows they've gained the advantage and are now content to slowly cruise along instead of going for the immediate kill shot. Whether it's the first interpretation, the second one, or both, the struggle over the headlock is incredible. Possibly the best I've seen. Robinson is constantly active looking for escapes and not letting Jumbo keep even the slightest space in the headlock lest he slip his head out. I love watching him try to bridge out of the headlock while applying his own headlock. I thought Robinson escaping with a handstand was maybe a little too cute, but it was fine when he just got immediately taken back down anyway. Jumbo's own work here is damn awesome, doing neat details like grinding his forearm on Billy's face when he tries to power out or spreading his legs to give himself a wider base on the ground. Also he does a really good job of just wrenching the hell out of it and giving Robinson no room to breathe. Once Jumbo moves on from the headlock and starts trying to put him away, Robinson's selling continues to be incredible. Even a simple whip into the turnbuckle looks like a big deal. Neat finish with Jumbo going for the same bulldog that won him the first fall but Robinson having it scouted and putting Jumbo away with a backbreaker.
Third fall is short and sweet with both guys, having each lost falls to carelessness, getting serious with trying to put the other guy away ASAP. Robinson naturally tries to follow up on the backbreaker finish by going to work on Jumbo's back, and Jumbo does a great job with his selling. Jumbo shows his fire but Robinson is too crafty to let him mount a sustained comeback. Cool spot with Jumbo going for another headlock to try to slow things down again but Robinson quickly countering into another backbreaker. They also kind of follow the theatrical rule of threes, wherein Jumbo attempts big throws on Robinson three times in a row while close to the ropes but on the third try Robinson ends up using the ropes to counter his backdrop attempt. Not long from there until Robinson manages to score the pin by reversing a roll-up attempt. I like to think that the back work played a factor in weakening him for that. Something I will agree on with my prior review is that Jumbo getting pissed in the post-match continues to be awesome and feel like foreshadowing for his character 13 years later.
Returning to the Mania weekend matches, I watched Panther/Bryan after reading the rave reviews expecting something innovative to the point of otherworldlyness but just kind of got a really good lucha title match. Instead, this nearly 50 year old match somehow actually did feel innovative to the point of otherwordlyness. Coming to this after stuff like Iyo/Bayley was like being transported to an alternative reality where, instead of going the route of becoming an acrobatic circus show to try to distinguish itself from shoot fighting, pro wrestling drew inspiration from shoot fighting to provide a lot of the same elements that make real fights great but in a dramatized context. In this, we see immaculate execution from guys who clearly took that element seriously and were willing to use instances of iffy execution as counter opportunities, multilayered strategies that change as the match goes on, learned counters, and an unrelenting intensity as both guys constantly sought the upper hand. One more cool thing is that the way they did the 2/3 falls stip here with fleshing out each individual fall as almost its own mini-match created an experience vaguely similar to a 3 round UFC fight. At the same time, it's also clearly distinct from shoot fighting and the shoot-style wrestling tradition in its move choice and selling style. In essence, it's a match that embraces the additional opportunities offered by works while still respecting the primal aspects that make a real fight exciting. It very well might be the match that best exemplifies the route I wish pro wrestling had taken.
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