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Post by Cap on May 17, 2018 12:23:25 GMT -5
Pretty simple question.... how much time needs to pass before it can be - in your mind - properly evaluated for something like this?
What if Bryan and Styles have a ***** match at the Royal Rumble (months before the ballots are due)? How comfortable would you be comparing that to Steamboat/Flair matches or to the AJPW 90s stuff... or whatever? Heck, how are you approaching Almas/Gargano or (for some) Gargano/Ciampa?
To me, great matches age well. In the moment greatness is really important, but a truly great match has rematch value; it doesn't provide diminishing returns.
Are you setting any time limits for yourself? Are you taking it on a case by case basis? Does time really matter much to you?
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Post by bossrock on May 17, 2018 19:29:28 GMT -5
A great match absolutely should be timeless and something that would be great no matter how many years after the fact it takes place. A ***** match 20 years ago should still be a ***** match today. I think it's easier to rank a match in the moment than it would be a wrestler because it's a singular event that takes place rather than something that has multiple years attached. Therefore, matches just a year or two old that I ranked ***** will finish high.
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Post by fxnj on May 18, 2018 1:51:47 GMT -5
Cool topic idea. I am pretty skeptical when I see people nominating matches that just took place within the past month. Lots of matches from the late 2000's-early 2010's got wildly overrated by myself and others in the moment by virtue of the general quality back then being pretty low. Though people here seem pretty thoughtful of what they nominate, there's definitely stuff that can be pointed to like Dunne/Bate from NXT that doesn't even hold up when watched a few months after the fact, let alone years later.
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Post by Cap on May 18, 2018 9:08:09 GMT -5
Cool topic idea. I am pretty skeptical when I see people nominating matches that just took place within the past month. Lots of matches from the late 2000's-early 2010's got wildly overrated by myself and others in the moment by virtue of the general quality back then being pretty low. Though people here seem pretty thoughtful of what they nominate, there's definitely stuff that can be pointed to like Dunne/Bate from NXT that doesn't even hold up when watched a few months after the fact, let alone years later. To that point there are things that work in the opposite directly as well. We all have matches that we thought were "good" on first watch, but grew on us. One of the litmus tests I use for a really great match is how it sticks to me. If I watch a match - regardless of how I feel about it in the moment - and I sort of cant stop pondering it over the next few days or so or I keep thinking about it even a week or so later, I will revisit that match. Almost every time I enjoy it more on rewatch and then it holds up over time. A great example of this for me is Giant Baba vs Billy Robinson. The first time I watched that match I thought it was very good, but I kept thinking about it here and there. It would come up in conversation so I went back and watched it and liked it a lot more. I went back a few months later and watched it again and thought it was an all time classic. Now it is more or less a shoe in for my list, but if I had only watched it once it probably wouldn't be. I would be willing to bet that SOMETHING modern is in the same boat (maybe not quite at that level, but same principle). I bet there is something I have watched in the last year or two that I thought was good that I will return to one day and think it was blow away great because it holds up. As of right now I am going to have some trouble rating anything that isn't at least a year old, making this past Mania weekend more or less my cutoff point. I am not saying I wont vote for anything that happens after that. You never know. Something might truly blow me away, but I feel like a year is safe. |
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Post by bossrock on May 18, 2018 10:43:04 GMT -5
Gargano-Ciampa is my cut-off right now and I know some are already considering it to be more of a "great" match as opposed to something that would fit this list, and I totally understand that. The one match that I can say with any certainty will make my list despite barely being a year old is Okada-Shibata. The first time I watched it I thought it was a strong MOTYC and a career performance for both men, but not the best thing I'd ever seen. On re-watch, not only was it my pick for best match of 2017, but legitimately one of the best matches of the 21st century. I plan on re-watching a lot of other matches the past year to see if they still hold up. If they do, they'll make the list.
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Post by Cap on May 18, 2018 13:06:01 GMT -5
I am in that camp on Gargano/Ciampa. I think it is the perfect case study of a match that is wonderful in the moment, but doesn't deliver the same way on second, third view. In turn it is a case study for what people will value and how they think about the "greatest matches" of all time in terms of what they deliver. I won't be surprised if some people have it in their top 10 or even number one to be honest and I can understand that. Honestly, it probably would have made my list if I made it 3 weeks after the match. Once I watched it again, it likely wont come close.
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Post by kas on Mar 23, 2019 10:12:28 GMT -5
I think that the most important part of a match is that first viewing and that first reaction in the moment, so to me if there was a 5 star match that took place today I'd consider it. So far there has never been a match I thought was five stars then looked back on and changed my mind.
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