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Post by tactician on Sept 9, 2018 20:15:21 GMT -5
Pretty simple. What are your top ten matches (in order) wrestled in the Cruiserweight/Junior Heavyweight style of wrestling?
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Post by elliott on Sept 10, 2018 2:58:15 GMT -5
So ignoring lucha matches and keeping it strictly with Japanese juniors and US cruiserweights. Also, I'm not going to count 10 man tags so this isn't just a list of Michinoku Pro 10 mans. But I'll give a top 10.
1. Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano 1/31/90 NJPW - For me the pinnacle of the style. Blow off match of a legendary feud filled with blood & hatred.
2. Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano 8/10/89 NJPW - Another match from the greatest juniors feud ever. This is match with Liger's famous performance selling the arm.
3. Dick Togo vs Antonio Honda 1/30/11 DDT - Less of a junior style match and more of a classic old school title match sort of style with great build, pacing and psychology. Almost didn't rank it because it isn't really what we thin of when we think of a "cruiserweight" match, but thats kind of what sets it apart.
4. Rey Mysterio Jr vs Low Ki 11/14/15 JAPW - In another world, this could have been the great juniors rivalry of the 00s and 2010s. I don't usually enjoy indy commentary as it is usually really smarky, but I love how Rey is treated like a legit legend in this setting and so stuff like "I'm just gonna sit back and mark out" doesn't bother me as much here. I get it. Ki is sharp as ever here and brings a ton of really interesting spots avoiding the 619. Love the build. Two guys working at the top of their game. I think this is the best Rey Jr match I've ever seen.
5. Shinjiro Ohtani vs El Samurai 1/21/96 NJPW - I've never liked El Samurai. I know a lot of people talk about him as an underrated guy and I get it, but he's never connected with me on any level to the point where I've always found him hard to watch. This is undeniable though. Awesome mat work that actually matters, great psychology, great selling. Peak Ohtani is one of the best, most interesting, compelling, dynamic and talented wrestlers ever and this is peak Ohtani.
6. Jushin Liger vs Shinjiro Ohtani 2/9/97 NJPW - Since the day this happened it has been compared to Misawa/Kobashi 1/97, but it is the 6/3/94 of 90s NJ Juniors. Their best in ring feud climaxing in this classic match where arguably the wrong guy won, but the Ace winning actually makes it all the richer. The challenger survives what beat him before forcing the Ace to dig deeper than ever before. Ohtani is always compared to Kobashi because the crying and flare. But this is the Misawa vs Kawada of NJ 90s Juniors. The best they did when they were at their best.
7. Eddy Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio Jr 10/26/97 WCW - A match I can never figure out how to talk about because it has been a universally beloved match from the day it aired. Literally perfect. Every spot is hit perfectly and they are some of the most impressive spots in the history of wrestling 21 years after the fact. Great character work to with Eddy being an unrelenting asshole and Rey Jr as sympathetic as ever.
8. Low Ki vs Bryan Danielson with special guest ref Ricky Steamboat 7/21/01 ECWA - Always my favorite match between these two. I think this counts for cruiserweights since they're definitely that size, but they weren't working the typical US Crusierweight style. There were elements of it sure but they were pushing the boundaries of the style into a more BattlArts inspired direction with intense grisly mat work and insanely stiff striking. Ricky Steamboat is an awesome ref bringing all of this up a level and giving it real credibility at the time.
9. Tatsumi Fujinami vs Dynamite Kid 2/5/80 NJPW - Awesome match I've always been a big fan of. Dynamite is a terrific heel and he is vicious here kicking the shit out of Fujinami. Fujinami in the late 70s and all of the 80s is one of the all time great workers (that stretch is as good as anyone ever) and this stands out as one of his best matches. Not as high spot heavy as your typical junior match, but more character and violence driven.
10. Nobuhiko Takada vs Shiro Koshinaka 2/5/87 NJPW - Always a favorite of man for almost 2 decades. I know these two have fallen out of favor for many, but I will always be a fan of Koshinaka. This is the match where he goes after Takada's fingers adding more grit than the typical Juniors match. This is also during the NJ vs UWF feud so the heat and atmosphere are better than average.
A few honorable mentions Liger & Co vs Kikuchi & Co Tags NOAH & NJPW - Just all of them. Southern style juniors tags with molten heat.
Liger vs Dick Togo 6/17/96 NJPW - Just a step or two below the classic matches, but always a personal favorite. Great chemistry between these two makes you really wish there had been a long feud between them.
Rey Jr vs Eddy Guerrero 6/23/05 WWE - Forgotten classic between two legends. I could see an argument for it over their Havoc match. This is built more on selling and build than holy shit spots.
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Post by elliott on Nov 3, 2019 2:11:46 GMT -5
I mentioned "Top 10ish 90s Japan Junior match" a decent amount in my recent run of nominations so I figured I'd try and sort that out a bit. I just stuck with traditional junior style matches. Even though they're technically junior heavyweight in size, it would seem ridiculous to include Ikeda vs Ishikawa matches on this list. Of course in the end that kind of just made this "the top 10 Liger & Sasuke" matches, but they're the two best Japanese juniors of the 90s so that would make sense.
1. Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (NJPW - 1/31/91) 2. Shinjiro Otani vs El Samurai (NJPW - 1/21/96) 3. Great Sasuke vs Jinsei Shinzaki (M-Pro - 4/29/94) 4. Wild Pegasus vs Black Tiger (NJPW - 6/11/96) 5. Great Sasuke vs Jushin Liger (NJPW - 4/16/94) 6. Taka Michinoku vs Great Sasuke (M-PRo - 10/10/97) 7. Jushin Liger vs El Samurai (NJPW - 4/30/92) 8. Jushin Liger vs Dick Togo (NJPW - 6/17/96) 9. Yoshinari Ogawa vs Masahito Kakihara (AJPW - 1/15/99) 10. Koji Kanemoto vs Dr. Wagner Jr (NJPW - 6/3/99)
If I were to include tag matches on this list, the only two that I would consider are:
Great Sasuke & Super Delphin vs Mens Teoh & Shoichi Funaki (M-Pro 11/2/97) Great Sasuke & Super Delphin vs Mens Teoh & Shoichi Funaki (M-Pro 11/9/97)
They'd probably land around 6 or 7. They're awesome matches.
Since my rough draft included way more than 10 matches, I figured I'd post the "next 10" as well. Of course it starts with Liger & Sasuke, but there's more variety in 11-20 than 1-10.
11. Jushin Liger vs Shinjiro Otani (NJPW - 2/9/97) 12. Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke (NJPW - 7/8/94) 13. Dan Kroffat vs Rob Van Dam (AJPW - 6/9/95) 14. Shinjiro Otani vs El Samurai (NJPW - 6/3/99) 15. Jushin Liger vs Norio Honaga (NJPW - 2/8/92) 16. Great Sasuke vs Magnum Tokyo (Toryumon - 2/7/99) 17. Wild Pegasus vs Great Sasuke (NJPW - 4/16/94) 18. Taka Michinoku vs Super Delphin (NJPW - 6/17/96) 19. Shinjiro Otani vs Ultimo Dragon (NJPW - 8/4/96) 20. Ultimo Dragon vs El Samurai (WAR - 3/7/93)
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Post by bossrock on Nov 3, 2019 17:47:07 GMT -5
1. Jushin Liger vs. El Samurai (NJPW - 4/30/1992) 2. Blood Generation vs. DO FIXXER (ROH/Dragon Gate - 3/31/2006) 3. El Samurai vs. Koji Kanemoto (NJPW - 6/5/1997) 4. Jushin Liger vs. Great Sasuke (NJPW - 4/16/1994) 5. Rey Mysterio vs. Juventud Guerrera (ECW - 3/9/1996) 6. Jushin Liger vs. Naoki Sano (NJPW - 1/31/1990) 7. Masaaki Mochizuki vs. Shingo Takagi (Dragon Gate - 11/1/2015) 7. Rey Mysterio vs. Psicosis (WAR - 12/13/1995) 8. Dick Togo vs. Antonio Honda (DDT - 1/30/2011) 9. Kota Ibushi and Naomichi Marufuji vs. KENTA and Taiji Ishimori (NOAH - 7/15/2007) 10. Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero (WCW - 10/26/1997)
Honorable Mentions:
Koji Kanemoto vs. Dr. Wagner Jr. (NJPW - 6/3/1998) Jushin Liger vs. Shinjiro Otani (NJPW - 2/9/1997) DO FIXXER vs. Crazy MAX vs. Italian Connection vs. M2K (Toryumon - 8/30/2003) Jushin Liger and Wataru Inoue vs. Yoshinobu Kanemaru and Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (NOAH - 2/17/2002) Hiromu Takahashi vs. Taiji Ishimori (NJPW - 6/4/2018) Will Ospreay vs. Shingo Takagi (NJPW - 6/5/2019) Big R Shimizu and Eita vs. Naruki Doi and Kaito Ishida vs. KAI and YAMATO (Dragon Gate - 7/21/2019) SHO vs. Shingo Takagi (NJPW - 5/13/2019) SHO vs. Dragon Lee (NJPW - 5/15/2019) Rocky Romero vs. El Phantasmo (NJPW - 5/24/2019) KUSHIDA vs. Hiromu Takahashi (NJPW - 6/11/2017) Jushin Liger vs. Koji Kanemoto (NJPW - 7/15/1998) Kaientai DX vs. Masato Yakushiji, Great Sasuke, Gran Hamada, Super Delfin, and Gran Naniwa (Michinoku Pro - 12/16/1996)
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Post by kas on Nov 3, 2019 20:53:43 GMT -5
1. Shingo Takagi vs Masaaki Mochizuki (DG 11/01/2015) 2. Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero (WCW 10/26/1997) 3. Shingo Takagi vs Will Ospreay (NJPW 06/05/2019) 4. Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke (NJPW 07/08/1994) 5. Do Fixer vs Blood Generation (ROH 03/31/2006) 6. Jushin Liger vs Shinjiro Ohtani (NJPW 02/09/1997) 7. Hiromu Takahashi vs Taiji Ishimori (NJPW 06/04/2018) 8. Crazy MAX vs Do Fixer vs M2K vs Italian Connection (Toryumon 8/30/2003) 9. BxB Hulk vs Uhaa Nation (DG 03/01/2015) 10. Killshot vs Dante Fox (Lucha Underground 06/25/2016)
Honourable mentions: Bryan Danielson vs SHINGO (DGUSA 07/24/2010) KUSHIDA vs Kyle O'Reilly (NJPW 06/07/2015) Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (NJPW 07/13/1989) PAC vs Kzy (DG 02/10/2019) SHO vs Shingo Takagi (NJPW 05/13/2019) Jushin Liger vs El Samurai (NJPW 4/30/1992) Wild Pegasus vs Great Sasuke (NJPW 4/16/1994) Rey Mysterio vs Juventud Guerrera (ECW 03/09/1996) Jimmyz vs VerserK (DG 09/18/2017) Tribe Vanguard vs MaxiMuM (DG 12/23/2017)
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Post by Cap on Nov 5, 2019 21:24:44 GMT -5
As of right now...
1. Jushin Thunder Liger vs El Samurai (Super Juniors Final – 4/30/1992) 2. Shinjiro Otani vs El Samurai (NJPW – 1/21/1996) 3. Bryan Danielson vs Low Ki (ROH - 3/30/2002) 4. Koji Kanemoto vs El Samurai (NJPW – 6/5/1997) 5. Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Misterio Jr (WCW – 10/26/1997) 6. Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (NJPW - 1/31/1990) 7. Jushin Thunder Liger vs Shinjiro Otani (2/9/1997) 8. Tatsumi Fujinami vs Dynamite Kid (NJPW - 2/5/1980) 9. Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (NJPW - 8/10/1989) 10. Bryan Danielson vs Low Ki (ECWA - 7/21/2001)
Even though those Low Ki vs Danielson matches aren't actually categorized as cruiser or lightweight matches, I'd count their early 2000s work in that category just based on how much of it was worked and how they are both probably under the general weight range that separates the divisions at the time.
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Post by elliott on Nov 6, 2019 6:15:58 GMT -5
As of right now... 3. Bryan Danielson vs Low Ki (ROH - 3/30/2002) 10. Bryan Danielson vs Low Ki (ECWA - 7/21/2001) Even though those Low Ki vs Danielson matches aren't actually categorized as cruiser or lightweight matches, I'd count their early 2000s work in that category just based on how much of it was worked and how they are both probably under the general weight range that separates the divisions at the time. I think these matches certainly count as cruiser weight matches. These guys were barely 200lbs at the time, if they even were. They were small dudes. To me they were a beacon of hope for what cruiserweight wrestling could become in the US. Guys like Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, Jericho etc helped bring the Japanese suplexes to US junior wrestling. Rey Jr, Juve, Psic etc brought the insane dives and top rope moves. Low Ki & Danielson & Tajiri were poised to bring us BattlArts inspired ultra stiff striking and mat work to go along with the highspots associated with cruiserweight wrestling. They were the next evolution. But ECW & WCW died and its not like Vince was gonna take a risk when all the competition was dead. Anyway great matches. Definitely crusier/junior matches. And they hold up better than just about any others. Have you watched the submission match recently? www.dailymotion.com/video/x1a5008
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Post by Cap on Nov 6, 2019 7:09:36 GMT -5
I haven't watched it in long long time. I'm going to try to get to that today. Their rivalry is one of my favorites of all time.
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Post by bossrock on Nov 7, 2019 22:56:47 GMT -5
If I was counting Danielson-Low Ki then the 2002 ROH match would definitely be in my top 10.
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