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Post by [Darren] on Mar 6, 2023 17:30:04 GMT -5
Very divisive match, apparently. I loved it.
I wasn’t bored for a single second, there was connectivity to each part of the match, callbacks to the build, previously established setups. Unique near fall usage. I don’t have a lot of complaints.
Some have complained that Max bled a gusher out of nowhere. Doesn’t bother me. Some have complained Bryan shouldn’t have tapped. Doesn’t bother me.
I loved the whole thing. Every single second.
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Post by Cap on Mar 6, 2023 18:50:45 GMT -5
It is tough to say how I will ultimately feel about this one (it is a lot of match, it was late and after a lot of show), but in the moment I was completely taken up by it. When compare it to matches I currently have on my list there are some I think it absolutely wrecks. That might be recency bias, so I will certainly hold off on plugging it in until I can give it another watch, but it is very much on the radar for me.
I've seen/heard some complaints, some from folks I quite respect in terms of their opinions. I'm not totally sure I get them right now, but I'll gain some perspective over time.
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Post by mattsdmf on Mar 7, 2023 16:56:38 GMT -5
I’ll third this recommendation. This is easily going to make my list after watching this a second time today. Both wrestlers put on a clinic and performances that kept everyone invested in the match for the entire duration which isn’t easy. I love the variety of submissions that Danielson employed in this. Although I do miss the Cattle Mutilation. He only helped make MJF into a major star in this match. While he snuck out a win through shaddy means, it was very much in character. I can only imagine how intolerable he will be in bragging about beating the best wrestler in the world. Probably even worse than when he beat CM Punk “twice in Chicago.” Amazing match and easily 5* for me.
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Post by makaiclub on Mar 8, 2023 13:21:57 GMT -5
I thought this was good, not great. There were moments where I thought MJF was great like his trash talking and crowd work and there were some moments where I thought he was distracting and greatly oversold his leg injury. I wrote in my notes that he looked like he was trying to do an impression of Neymar diving at one point. Same for the techincal wrestling. I wasn't into much of it when he was the two going through headlock pin attempts and rolls but when it came to them fighting over submissions and trying to get to the rope, I found it compelling. There were too many moments where I wasn't invested and there are pleny of matches, 60 minute ones, were I was. So there I wasn't that thrilled with it but I will say it had some terriifc moments.
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Post by Cap on Mar 14, 2023 19:30:16 GMT -5
I rewatched this over the weekend and I'm still not totally sure what to make of it. I think the layout, pin progression, and the general story beats are perfect. It is an hour and change, so there are certainly some exicution things I could nit-pick here or there, but it doesn't really feel all that worth it to me Most of the complaints I've seen about MJF's selling or gaps in the logic etc. don't really strike me in the same way or I read the match differently. MJF is a touch hammy in spots, but no moreso some of the hammy stuff I love from other eras. One small exception is him looking right in the camera when he is bloody and in the submission. Again, that feels like nit-picking to a level of not being particularly relevant. The bulk of this match was compelling, smart, and toothy. The commentary team did a pretty good job explaining how all the sections hold together. I love the vicious punches from MJF late in the match. I think the drama they capture is pretty special. I don't LOVE MJF using the oxygen tank to win, but putting over that it is what he needed to do after taking all his shortcuts was smart. I felt a bit like he and Dragon were out to prove a point (maybe different, but overlapping points) and I think they did.
Even still, this match sits comfortably as my MOTY, but I am not sure if it is going on my list. As of right now I feel like plugging it in as #99 or #100 and then just see how I feel over time. I know no one cares about stars but their own, but for context, this feels like its somewhere between ***** match that will barely make the list and top end ****3/4 (which would comfortably miss). I'll pen it in as the former for now because its stuck in my head since I first watched it and that is usually a good sign. I don't know if I have another watch in me before the ballot, especially next to Okada/Omega (2/3 falls), but that i sort of my hang up. This feels like a match I like more than Okada/Omega, but I have had that comfortably on my list for a while and don't feel as confident about this one. It's weird and means something is a bit high or a bit low. It will all work itself out over time (or it wont... who cares).
Regardless, this is very much on the radar for me. I think much of this absolutely perfect. It is probably MJF's best performance (at least best for a match not particularly tailored to what folks think of as his skills) and Dragon put in a hell of a night to add lots of depth and detail to this (that heel hook in the figure four popped me, as did him smiling as MJF was panting at the end).
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Post by [Darren] on Mar 14, 2023 21:16:39 GMT -5
I will only put this on my list if I decide to rewatch it. Right now if it’s going on, it’s going HIGH.
I don’t know if I’ve ever watched a match live and been that invested and not been disappointed by any aspect of it.
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Post by [Darren] on Mar 14, 2023 21:20:21 GMT -5
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Post by philschneider on Mar 14, 2023 22:17:26 GMT -5
Thanks Darren!
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Post by puropotsy on Mar 16, 2023 8:59:38 GMT -5
Haven't watched the match yet but agree that the review by Phil was stellar
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Post by puropotsy on Mar 19, 2023 19:33:52 GMT -5
I watched this knowing the results, including the sequence of falls, and still think it is one of the best matches I’ve ever seen. Danielson is the early 90s Jumbo Tsuruta of his generation in the way he is elevating the next generation. And MJF completely stepped up to do everything possible to elevate himself. Intensity, physical and epic storytelling. It doesn’t get better than this.
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Post by microstatistics on Mar 20, 2023 0:54:55 GMT -5
Despite the plaudits and Danielson's involvement, I was on the fence about checking this one out mainly because I avoid matches longer than 35-40 min like the plague. But I'm glad I bit the bullet because this was a truly impressive achievement. I don't want to jump the gun with the praise before a rewatch but this seems like one of the few modern matches that actually lives up to the hype, in large part due to clever match construction and emphasis on story and character.
There is not much to say about Danielson, this guy just keeps on expanding his GOAT candidacy. But this really felt like a career-defining performance by MJF, who did a particularly great job incorporating his gimmick (which ordinarily I don't really like) into the narrative of the match.
The drink throwing spot was cringy and the first 15 minutes were solid but unremarkable, but otherwise they didn't seem put a foot wrong. The character dynamic, the unique falls, the limb psychology and consistent selling that persisted till the very end (almost unheard of for such a long match), MJF having to do it the hard way during sudden death, it was all top notch to me at first glance.
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Post by tetsujin on Mar 22, 2023 3:26:40 GMT -5
This is the best match in AEW thus far, and the first one to actually feel to me like a top 100 contender. Also, I really appreciate that Bryan has finally worked a ~60 minute match that it's actually great, the GOAT is still adding stuff to his résumé. MJF is such a prodigy, I don't understand how some people can't see it just because he's a heel that actually makes you hate him (I hate his fucking corny promos but man that's exactly what he wants me to feel!). I can't believe something surpassed Ospreay/Omega this early. ****1/2.
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Post by fxnj on Jun 20, 2023 22:19:41 GMT -5
What would you guys say are the necessary matches to watch beforehand to fully get this match? This seems very highly regarded as a crown jewel in Bryan’s AEW, so I’d like to give it a fair shot.
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Post by tetsujin on Jun 20, 2023 22:57:58 GMT -5
What would you guys say are the necessary matches to watch beforehand to fully get this match? This seems very highly regarded as a crown jewel in Bryan’s AEW, so I’d like to give it a fair shot. Just go for it. Although Bryan's mini run against seven different opponents to get this title shot is amazing, there's really nothing you *need* before watching this.
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Post by microstatistics on Jun 20, 2023 23:07:34 GMT -5
What would you guys say are the necessary matches to watch beforehand to fully get this match? This seems very highly regarded as a crown jewel in Bryan’s AEW, so I’d like to give it a fair shot. Danielson vs. Rush seems to be the main one. MJF hired Rush as a mercenary to incapacitate Bryan and exacerbate his arm injury, which is a key element in this match. Plus, that's a pretty good brawl in itself. Essentially, the build-up is that MJF has become (and remained) world champion through dastardly, underhanded tactics rather than any kind of appreciable skill. So there are doubts circulating about his actual wrestling talent (in kayfabe but also in online circles), particularly relative to Bryan who MJF despises out of insecurity and envy. MJF does his utmost to put off the title defense or gain any type of prior advantage (e.g., the referenced Rush hit job) but once the match actually arrives, he has to face the music and actually prove his in-ring mettle for 60 minutes against a guy who can wrestle that length in his sleep.
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