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Post by joeg on Jan 10, 2018 3:51:13 GMT -5
1- Kobashi and Kikuchi vs Can Ams 5/25/92 2 - 6/9/95 3 - Funks vs Abby and Shiek 7/15/79 4 - Austin vs Hart WM13 5 - 6/3/94 6- Flair vs Steamboat Landover House Show 3/18/89 7 - Atlantis vs Villano III Mask vs Mask 8- Okada vs Shibata 9 - Tully vs Magnum I Quit Cage Match Starcade 85 10 - Trauma 1 vs Canis Lupus Mask vs Mask
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Post by Cap on Jan 10, 2018 16:37:41 GMT -5
I just went back and looked at my list beginning top 10. There is no way mine will look like that at the end. I feel like I just sort of plucked matches from styles/areas/time periods that I know I have at 5 stars that sort of stand out as the ones that represent the top tier of that for me. I have already thought of like 20 matches I wanted to get into that top 10 haha.
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Post by dkuchler31096 on Jan 10, 2018 20:18:14 GMT -5
In no particular order but if I had to choose ten matches it would be this.
Okada vs Omega 1.4.2017 Tanahashi vs Okada 1.4.2016 Tully Blanchard vs Magnum T.A Starrcade 85 Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WM 25 Misawa vs Kobashi 3.01.2003 Okada vs Shibata 4.09.2017 John Cena vs CM Punk WWE MITB 2011 Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat Chi Town Rumble Ric Flair vs Terry Funk I Quit Bret Bart vs Steve Austin WM 13
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Post by twfi on Jan 11, 2018 5:06:44 GMT -5
In no particular order but if I had to choose ten matches it would be this. Okada vs Omega 1.4.2017 Tanahashi vs Okada 1.4.2016 Tully Blanchard vs Magnum T.A Starrcade 85 Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WM 25 Misawa vs Kobashi 3.01.2003 Okada vs Shibata 4.09.2017 John Cena vs CM Punk WWE MITB 2011 Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat Chi Town Rumble Ric Flair vs Terry Funk I Quit Bret Bart vs Steve Austin WM 13 Nice to see I'm not only one with Tanahashi vs. Okada from Wrestle Kingdom 11. Reminds me to nominate it and Okada vs. Omega 1.
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Post by witlon on Jan 14, 2018 7:53:19 GMT -5
Don't know how much this is going to change, because deciding between (and rewatching) the ****3/4 matches is going to take up most of my free time but we'll give an initial list a try.
1. Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW, 12/6/96) 2. MS-1 vs. Sangre Chicana (CMLL, 9/23/83) 3. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW, 6/9/95) 4. Genichrio Tenyru & Jumbo Tsurta vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (AJPW, 1/26/86) 5. Akira Hokuto vs. Shinobu Kandori (4/2/93) 6. Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (AJPW, 1/20/97) 7. 5 vs. 5 Guantlet (NJPW, 4/19/84) 8. Sting's Squadron vs. Dangerous Alliance (WCW, 6/20/92) 9. John Cena vs. Umaga (WWE, 1/28/07) 10. Kenta Kobashi & Tsyoshi Kikuchi vs. Doug Furnas & Dan Kroffat (AJPW, 5/25/92)
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Post by smartmark15 on Feb 2, 2018 22:23:16 GMT -5
From best to least best, so far. Just this was a nightmare to come up with.
Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (6/9/95) Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi (1/20/97) Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (3/23/97) Shinobu Kandori vs. Akira Hokuto (4/2/93) Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanchard (12/27/86) Steve Austin vs. The Rock (4/1/01) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (5/7/89) Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness (2/23/08) Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk (8/18/13) John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan (8/18/13)
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Post by microstatistics on Feb 16, 2018 21:08:58 GMT -5
1. 6/9/1995 2. Tamura vs. Yamamoto, 6/24/1999 3. DreamRush 92 Tag 4. Liger vs. Samurai, 4/30/1992 5. Shawn vs. Foley, Mind Games 6. Santo vs. Dandy vs. Casas, 12/6/1996 7. Ishikawa vs. Ikeda, 4/15/1997 8. Akiyama vs. Inoue, 4/23/2006 9. Queendom 94 Tag 10. Bret vs. Owen, WM X
I'm fairly comfortable with this list right now actually.
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Post by headcheese on Mar 16, 2018 17:55:26 GMT -5
In a mostly non specific order
4/2/93 Akira Hokuto vs. Shinobu Kandori (Probably a number 1 lock)
6/11/05 Necro Butcher vs. Samoa Joe
7/18/05 Kensuke Sasaki vs. Kenta Kobashi
4/5/09 Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker
4/1/12 The Undertaker vs. Triple H
6/2/12 Team FIST vs. The Young Bucks
8/4/13 Katsuyori Shibata vs. Tomohiro Ishii
12/11/14 Adrian Neville vs. Sami Zayn
8/22/15 Bayley vs. Sasha Banks
(Going on to try to find the date) Kushinbo Kamen vs. Kikutaro
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Post by elliott on Apr 24, 2018 19:48:42 GMT -5
I've made a few rough drafts over the past couple of days. I'm feeling a lot more confident about my Top 10. My top 5 I feel really good about the order to the point where I could see it holding strong. Same thing with matches #6-10, although I'm not as firm on the exact order as I am about 1-5. There are a couple of matches just outside the top 10 that could work there way towards the top 10 as the project progresses. Anyway. If we turned in ballots today, my top 10 would be this:
1. Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 (Hair vs Hair - EMLL 9/23/83) 2. Akira Hokuto & Shinobu Kandori vs Aja Kong & Bull Nakano (AJW Queendom - 3/27/94) 3. Akira Hokuto vs Shinobu Kandori (AJW DreamSlam - 4/3/93) 4. Stan Hansen vs Andre the Giant (NJPW - 9/23/81) 5. The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Lex Luger, Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard) and JJ Dillon vs Dusty Rhodes, Nikita Koloff, The Road Warriors & Paul Ellering (WarGames - JCP 7/4/87) 6. El Hijo del Santo vs Negro Casas (Mask vs Hair - CMLL 9/19/97) 7. Invader I vs Al Perez (Street Fight - WWC 10/26/86) 8. Megumi Kudo vs Combat Toyoda (No Rope Exploding Barbed Wire Death Match - FMW 5/5/96) 9. Alexander Otsuka vs Mitsuhiro Matsunaga (BattlARTS - 11/9/99) 10. Tatsumi Fujinami, Yoshikai Fujiwara, Kengo Kimura, Keiichi Yamada & Shiro Koshinaka vs Riki Choshu, Masa Saito, Super Strong Machine, Hiroshi Saito & Kuniaki Kobayashi (Elimination Match - NJPW 9/12/88)
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Post by microstatistics on May 2, 2018 1:59:34 GMT -5
I've made a few rough drafts over the past couple of days. I'm feeling a lot more confident about my Top 10. My top 5 I feel really good about the order to the point where I could see it holding strong. Same thing with matches #6-10, although I'm not as firm on the exact order as I am about 1-5. There are a couple of matches just outside the top 10 that could work there way towards the top 10 as the project progresses. Anyway. If we turned in ballots today, my top 10 would be this: 9. Alexander Otsuka vs Mitsuhiro Matsunaga (BattlARTS - 11/9/99) Nice.
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Post by elliott on May 6, 2018 20:39:49 GMT -5
I did a whole podcast on that match with Stacey, but I could probably explain it a little more because 9 is a big number, especially when you consider what I'm ranking it above.
I'm finding this project both easier and more difficult than GWE at the same time and for the same reason. There are so many fucking matches. We could easily do Top 100 Title Matches, Top 100 Brawls, Top 100 American Matches, Top 100 Lucha Matches, Top 100 Japanese Matches, Top 100 Tag Matches, Top 100 80s Matches, Top 100 90s Matches, Top 100 00s matches etc etc etc and I'd still think the 100th match on every fucking list was a great match. For GWE, I had a shit ton of candidates, but I still felt comfortable having my number 100 spot be a totally personal pick I couldn't really justify (Mad Dog Vachon). I really can't do that with this project. There are too many 1000s of candidates.
So what I've been thinking about are the qualities that make matches go from "merely" great or MOTYC to MOTD or top 50 All Time Candidate. With literally 1000s of legit candidates for a top 100, a match can't just be great, it has to stand out and be memorable, otherwise it would just be swamped with the other candidates. I don't mean memorable in the sense that it is a famous match due to historical importance or because it drew the largest crowd. I mean a memorable in a way that makes it stand out in the sea of great matches.
I've written a lot about my love of brawls, but another thing I love in pro wrestling is matches between two contrasting wrestlers. I recognize the appeal of two wrestlers of similar size, skill and style (think Flair/Steamboat, Misawa/Kawada, Santo/Casas) wrestling to see who is truly the better man. But I've always been drawn to Big vs Little, Rookie vs Vet, Fighter vs Wrestler. So the very idea of a match like Otsuka vs Matsunaga is going to appeal to me (Shooty BattlArts Guy vs Death Match Killer). Especially so since of all of the BattlArts wrestlers, Otsuka has always been my favorite and is the sort of guy who would be an interesting match up for any opponent. Even with Otsuka's quirky style that would want to see against anyone, I can't imagine two more different types of wrestlers matching up in 1999 (ever?) than these two.
Just the idea of this match is bizarre because of the stylistic differences, but they manage to far exceed the highest possible expectations going in. The story is pretty simple: Otsuka the human wrestling machine uses all of the moves he can think of (so brutal suplexes and shoot style submissions and insane dives) to try and at least slow down Matsunaga's onslaught of attempted homicide by stabbing in the face. Since the whole existence of extreme death match wrestlers like Matsunaga is built upon the idea that these guys feel no pain, Otsuka can't use mere wrestling moves to stop Matsunaga. So Otsuka has to get in on the attempted homicides as well.
The idea of a match worked like this outrageous and some real "best case scenario" fantasy booking type shit. The fact that they pulled it off as well as they did, and in actual real life is all the more extraordinary. (If someone told me Alexander Otsuka was actually a CGI experiment, I'd be like yeah, that makes sense to me). We're so lucky this exists and #9 might be too low.
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Post by Cap on May 18, 2018 9:27:06 GMT -5
So I just went through and did my first true draft of my top 50 yestaerday and this is the new top 10 I have so far...
1. Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 (Hair vs Hair – 9/23/1983) 2. Shinobu Kandori vs Akira Hokuto (4/2/1993) 3. Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi (7/29/1993) 4. Holy Demon Army vs Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa (Tag League Final – 6/9/1995) 5. Stan Hansen vs Carlos Colon (Texas Bullrope Match – 1/6/1987) 6. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (2/3 Falls – NWA Title – 4/2/1989) 7. Stan Hansen vs Toshiaki Kawada (2/28/1993) 8. Nick Bockwinkel vs Curt Hennig (AWA Title – 11/21/1986) 9. Jumbo Tsuruta vs Genichiro Tenryu (Triple Crown Title – 6/5/1989) 10. El Hijo del Santo vs Negro Casas (UWA World Heavyweight Title – 5/17/1991)
If people don't mind I am going to change this thread to "Running Top 10" so we can keep all talk of updated lists here....
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Post by bossrock on May 18, 2018 10:23:28 GMT -5
1. Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (10/31/1998) 2. Mitsuharu Misawa and Jun Akiyama vs. Akira Taue and Toshiaki Kawada (12/6/1996) 3. El Satanico vs. El Dandy (Hair vs. Hair, 12/14/1990) 4. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi,Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue, Masanobu Fuchi (10/19/1990) 5. Kenta Kobashi and Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Akira Taue and Toshiaki Kawada (6/9/1995) 6. Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (1/20/1997) 7. Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Hell in a Cell, 10/5/1997) 8. Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness (8/12/2006) 9. Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk (7/23/1989) 10. Akira Hokuto and Shinobu Kandori vs. Aja Kong and Bull Nakano (3/27/1994)
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Post by bossrock on May 18, 2018 10:29:49 GMT -5
I did a whole podcast on that match with Stacey, but I could probably explain it a little more because 9 is a big number, especially when you consider what I'm ranking it above. I'm finding this project both easier and more difficult than GWE at the same time and for the same reason. There are so many fucking matches. We could easily do Top 100 Title Matches, Top 100 Brawls, Top 100 American Matches, Top 100 Lucha Matches, Top 100 Japanese Matches, Top 100 Tag Matches, Top 100 80s Matches, Top 100 90s Matches, Top 100 00s matches etc etc etc and I'd still think the 100th match on every fucking list was a great match. For GWE, I had a shit ton of candidates, but I still felt comfortable having my number 100 spot be a totally personal pick I couldn't really justify (Mad Dog Vachon). I really can't do that with this project. There are too many 1000s of candidates. So what I've been thinking about are the qualities that make matches go from "merely" great or MOTYC to MOTD or top 50 All Time Candidate. With literally 1000s of legit candidates for a top 100, a match can't just be great, it has to stand out and be memorable, otherwise it would just be swamped with the other candidates. I don't mean memorable in the sense that it is a famous match due to historical importance or because it drew the largest crowd. I mean a memorable in a way that makes it stand out in the sea of great matches. I've written a lot about my love of brawls, but another thing I love in pro wrestling is matches between two contrasting wrestlers. I recognize the appeal of two wrestlers of similar size, skill and style (think Flair/Steamboat, Misawa/Kawada, Santo/Casas) wrestling to see who is truly the better man. But I've always been drawn to Big vs Little, Rookie vs Vet, Fighter vs Wrestler. So the very idea of a match like Otsuka vs Matsunaga is going to appeal to me (Shooty BattlArts Guy vs Death Match Killer). Especially so since of all of the BattlArts wrestlers, Otsuka has always been my favorite and is the sort of guy who would be an interesting match up for any opponent. Even with Otsuka's quirky style that would want to see against anyone, I can't imagine two more different types of wrestlers matching up in 1999 (ever?) than these two. Just the idea of this match is bizarre because of the stylistic differences, but they manage to far exceed the highest possible expectations going in. The story is pretty simple: Otsuka the human wrestling machine uses all of the moves he can think of (so brutal suplexes and shoot style submissions and insane dives) to try and at least slow down Matsunaga's onslaught of attempted homicide by stabbing in the face. Since the whole existence of extreme death match wrestlers like Matsunaga is built upon the idea that these guys feel no pain, Otsuka can't use mere wrestling moves to stop Matsunaga. So Otsuka has to get in on the attempted homicides as well. The idea of a match worked like this outrageous and some real "best case scenario" fantasy booking type shit. The fact that they pulled it off as well as they did, and in actual real life is all the more extraordinary. (If someone told me Alexander Otsuka was actually a CGI experiment, I'd be like yeah, that makes sense to me). We're so lucky this exists and #9 might be too low. I definitely agree with the difficulties of coming up with just 100 matches, especially when there's so much stuff I still have to go through. What's helpful for me in regards to what I consider top-tier are the matches I immediately go to when I ask myself, "What are the greatest matches ever?" I usually come up with the same matches every time, so that must be a sign that I consider them the best.
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Post by elliott on May 19, 2018 0:08:48 GMT -5
So I just went through and did my first true draft of my top 50 yestaerday and this is the new top 10 I have so far... 1. Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 (Hair vs Hair – 9/23/1983) 2. Shinobu Kandori vs Akira Hokuto (4/2/1993) 3. Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi (7/29/1993) 4. Holy Demon Army vs Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa (Tag League Final – 6/9/1995) 5. Stan Hansen vs Carlos Colon (Texas Bullrope Match – 1/6/1987) 6. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (2/3 Falls – NWA Title – 4/2/1989) 7. Stan Hansen vs Toshiaki Kawada (2/28/1993) 8. Nick Bockwinkel vs Curt Hennig (AWA Title – 11/21/1986) 9. Jumbo Tsuruta vs Genichiro Tenryu (Triple Crown Title – 6/5/1989) 10. El Hijo del Santo vs Negro Casas (UWA World Heavyweight Title – 5/17/1991) If people don't mind I am going to change this thread to "Running Top 10" so we can keep all talk of updated lists here.... I am delighted to see Hansen vs Kobashi #3 on your list and your highest ranked AJPW match. If this was just a straight up "100 favorites" list, that would probably rank #1. It was the second AJPW match I ever saw after the Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Can Ams tag and that 1-2 punch certainly changed my wrestling fandom forever. It is always just outside my top 10 whenever I've done a rough draft. I definitely feel like I downgrade it a little bit because it is such an overwhelming personal favorite because I don't think #3 all time is unreasonable for that match at all. I also love that you have the 91 Santo/Casas match at #10. Fucking right. I still have the 97 match as their best and a top 5 contender at this point, but the 91 match will still rank really well on my ballot. More people need to watch that.
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