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Post by elliott on Dec 3, 2017 17:07:27 GMT -5
Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 (Hair vs Hair – EMLL 50th Anniversary Show – 9/23/1983) My pick for the greatest match ever. This feels more like a gritty fight scene in a movie than a wrestling match. Chicana at his very best might be the greatest wrestler ever. Chicana’s performance selling in this match is the single greatest selling I’ve ever seen in a match and his transition to offense is the single greatest and most exciting transition I’ve ever seen. There is no way this could be anything but my #1 match.
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Post by Cap on Dec 3, 2017 21:25:06 GMT -5
Second!!!!!!!!
This is also - as of right now - my #1 match. It has been my defacto number one match for some time. I haven't made a list, but its the match to beat. This is the match where Sangre Chicana became one of my favorite wrestlers. The emotional response he can create by taking an ass whoopin and then throwing one haymaker left hand is unreal. This is a fight and it is - to me - perfect in every way. It will be the match to beat for me, I can't see any way it falls out of my top 10 (or even 5). I will look a little side-eyed at anyone who doesn't have it on their list.
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Post by philschneider on Jan 4, 2018 12:23:54 GMT -5
Yeah this is the best match in wrestling history, and certainly is a no brainer for the next step of this process. The structure of this is a classic lucha structure and this was an incredible version of this. Chicana is amazing in this and MS1 is a great foil segundacaida.blogspot.com/2017/01/1983-match-of-year.html
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Post by bossrock on Jan 5, 2018 16:31:40 GMT -5
An absolute bloodbath of a brawl. MS-1 brutalizes Chicana in the early goings leading to some of the greatest selling in wrestling history and a hell of a babyface comeback. While I'm not sure I'd consider this the greatest match ever or even the best lucha match, it definitely deserves to be in the conversation.
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Post by stunninggrover on Jan 13, 2018 21:21:22 GMT -5
One of the greatest pro wrestling matches ever. About 13 or 14 years ago, when I first watched this match, I realised I had just watched one of the most awesome matches ever. My opinion today is pretty much still the same. It is very likely that this match will end very high on my list.
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Post by gordi on Jan 15, 2018 8:04:41 GMT -5
It's kind of embarrassing to admit this, but: When discussing music, TV, movies, and pro wrestling, when there is something that's been flying under my radar and a bunch of people all seem to jump all over it at once, my knee-jerk reaction is almost always "Oh, that's probably just a bunch of hipster bullshit."
Then, I get over myself slightly and I go to check it out and sometimes it is pure hipster BS, sometimes it isn't BS but it also isn't my thing, sometimes it isn't BS at all but I feel like there is some recency bias at work and people are overrating this thing because it's new to them and they are excited about finding it...
...and sometimes, the thing in question really is just f'n great and that's all there is to it.
Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 (Hair vs Hair) 9/23/1983 is just f'n great. It's ideally structured, perfectly paced, and utterly believable (except for when the camera inexplicably zooms right in on Emm-eh Ess-eh uno doing his blade job outside the ring). It's a master class in selling. The hate feels real. That left hook counter outta nowhere is easily one of the greatest moments in all of pro wrestling.
It's absolutely right up there with the Boot Camp Match, the Alley Fight, the Piper vs Valentine Dog Collar Match, The Backlund vs Patera Texas Death Match, Atlantis vs Villano III Mask vs Mask, Ozaki vs Kansai Street Fight, Bull vs Kong Cage Match, Dump vs Chigusa Hair vs Hair... in fact, it really might be the best of them all.
In terms of intensity, getting the most heat and excitement out of a minimalist approach, story telling, use of blood, and sheer drama it is up there with any match I have seen. It will finish pretty high on my ballot. It's either this or Atlantis vs Villano III or the Cibernetico that Felino won for my top Mexican wrestling match. It's this or Atlantis vs Villano III for my top bloodbath. It's most likely this or Oz vs Kansai for my top brawl.
Could break into my top ten after a re-watch or two.
Loved it.
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Post by microstatistics on May 2, 2018 1:53:05 GMT -5
Not a lock at the moment but it could easily sneak onto my list. The best executed version of the classic lucha brawl formula. Fantastic brawl.
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Post by stunninggrover on May 7, 2018 10:54:39 GMT -5
I posted in this thread about 4 months ago, but I recently re-watched this match and now I have some more detailed comments...
1983-09-23 Sangre Chicana vs. MS-1 (EMLL 50th Anniversary Show @ Arena Mexico in Mexico City, Mexico) [Hair vs. Hair] MS-1 started beating the crap out of Sangre Chicana, who didn’t even have time to take of his jacket. Chicana juiced. They showed concern and even started wiping his bloody face with a tissue. MS-1 really acted like a man possessed. He was aggressive and kept attacking Chicana, who sold the attack tremendously. MS-1 hit a top rope splash and pinned Chicana to win the first fall. One of the most awesome moments in pro wrestling took place when Chicana’s mother and another lady (perhaps another family member) showed so much concern that they started wiping Chicana’s bloody face with a tissue. MS-1 continued the brutal attack. Chicana fought back and hit a massive dive onto MS-1. The crowd chanted: “Chicana! Chicana!” Chicana managed to roll back into the ring. MS-1 didn’t make the count. Chicana won the second fall. In the third fall, MS-1 started juicing. It was a huge blade job. Both workers were selling tremendously. MS-1 with a massive dive onto Sangre Chicana on the outside. Massive dive by Chicana a little bit later in the match. Chicana ended up winning the match by submission. This match where both guys were brawling, selling tremendously and rolling around in each other’s blood, that’s the lucha libre match I knew had to exist even before I first watched it. I had seen several great bloody lucha brawls. But, when I first watched it in 2005, I was so happy to have watched the greatest lucha libre match ever. I will never forget being blown away by this match so much. I watched it as part of the Greatest Wrestler Ever project back in 2005/2006. I wanted to do some more research on old school luchadores and ordered the VHS cassette this match was on (yes, I was still ordering VHS cassettes in 2005… it took me longer than most to switch to DVD, I guess). I re-watched it several times and it always remained one of my all-time favorite matches. I re-watched it recently again and, for now, I’d say that this match is probably a lock for my top 3 greatest matches of all-time. I think I like Hokuto vs. Kandori from Dream Slam I slightly better.
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Post by fxnj on May 12, 2018 2:37:08 GMT -5
Fantastic brawl. Not a whole lot to add to what has already been said here to praise it. I'm normally not a fan of how the CMLL formula, but these guys really made it work to great effect. The description of this as feeling more like a movie fight scene than a wrestling match is great and exactly what I was thinking of when watching it. The selling is very theatrical and unlike any other match I've seen. The grimy atmosphere and shots of grannies smoking in the crowd is really a perfect fit for this type of match as well. Combine that with the color saturation that reminds of low-budget spaghetti westerns, and you have something really feels like an arthouse movie that just so happens to be about two guys having a wrestling match, if that makes sense. It should do well on my ballot and be by far my highest ranked lucha match, but it's also difficult to rate as it's just so different from anything else. Regarding the greatest match ever praise, I do think there's a few flaws that hold it back a bit. Besides the visible blade job, some of the punches are not so great at points. Go to www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXJC75SV6xE and 4:19 or 15:08 and you'll see punches that pretty clearly don't hit getting sold as if they did. Considering the match is built around punches and selling, that's a big thing to me and did take me out of the match a tad. There's also the moment at 17:15 where Chicana does his big comeback dive and the camera weirdly switches to some dude's back as soon as it hits. Watching it in slow-motion, it looks like he might have hit the chairs instead of MS-1, which would be a pretty big botch.
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Post by Cap on Jun 5, 2018 8:16:11 GMT -5
I rewatched this recently along with three other matches as part of what I plan to be a semi-regular thing for me. I am grouping matches and comparing and contrasting them. For this session I watched: Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 (Hair vs Hair – 9/23/1983) Shinobu Kandori vs Akira Hokuto (4/2/1993) Stan Hansen vs Carlos Colon (Texas Bullrope Match – 1/6/1987) John Cena vs Umaga (Last Man Standing – WWE Title – 1/28/2007) You can find my entire post on all four here: gweproject.freeforums.net/post/2387Most of my analysis is grouped by qualities of the matches, but here were my final thoughts on this match. Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 (Hair vs Hair – 9/23/1983)Current Rank: 1 Trending: Even/Down-ish When a match comes into a project like this penciled in as number one without much real question in my mind, there is no place to go but down. I am not sure this rewatch session actually moved this match at all, but it did make me think there is a chance that it could be dethroned, particularly by Kandori/Hokuto. I feel like I came away just a little less taken by the last half of the match, just a little less invested in every move. Maybe this comes from seeing it who-knows how many times, maybe it was my mood, any number of variables could move the needle on a match just hair. Regardless, I came away feeling like the gap closed between this and the other top shelf matches. It isn’t enough for me to replace it atop the list just, but it has made me envision a world where this might not be my #1 with a bullet. This is a masterful piece of work either way, required viewing for wrestling fans as far as I am concerned. It is case study in maximizing every move. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t call either man or the match itself physically limited; it is just that this match built upon visceral emotion. Truly, this is wrestling at its finest.
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Post by kas on Sept 4, 2019 7:29:36 GMT -5
Wow. I'm ashamed to say that I had not seen this match until now. Even more ashamed when it turns out just as good as everyone says it is. Chicana's selling is extraordinary. MS-1's heel-work is perfect. They milk absolutely everything from an insanely hot crowd. Most definitely a top ten contender.
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Post by elliott on Sept 5, 2019 17:45:48 GMT -5
Kas, since you're just seeing this for the first time and liked it so much, I have a few recommendations for you... First up is Sangre Chicana vs El Satanico 9/24/83 www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUnYYgYE1bsThis match takes place the day after the famous MS-1 match and is worked completely differently. It is a title match that builds drama using submissions, selling & facial expressions. It is filmed at ringside like a modern day Black Terry Jr production. Its not on the level of the MS-1 match, but it is very very good and a really cool look at 2 days during Sangre Chicana's peak. Next is Sangre Chicana vs Perro Aguayo 2/28/86 www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkDdtLHcOl0This is a hair vs hair match that apparently Chicana considers the high point of his career. Incredible match with Chicana putting on a really similar performance to the MS-1 match. I know Cap and I consider it a top 10 all time contender. Be prepared for the heel ref though. Lastly, Invader 1 vs Ron Starr 9/19/86 www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_pOOuCrbasThis is the match where I went "OH MY FUCKING GOD INVADER 1 WHERE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE?" for the first time. Since you enjoyed Chicana's selling performance in the MS-1 match, Invader 1 should be right up your alley. It is the exact same sort of stumbling punch drunk performance you'll see out of peak Chicana. I'm glad people are getting to see and digging matches like MS-1 vs Chicana for the first time. That's awesome.
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Post by kas on Sept 5, 2019 19:56:31 GMT -5
Thank you so much Elliott, between this and your recommendations thread I've basically got all the matches I need before the next ballot. Also quick question about the heel refs, just how prevalent are they in Lucha? The only lucha event I've watched back to front was last year's Triplemania, and the heel ref in the mask match really annoyed me.
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Post by Cap on Sept 5, 2019 20:55:12 GMT -5
Yeah love all those matches. I have always preferred the 5/26/89 match vs Satanico (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJlZgBK-BMo), but both are my list to rewatch soon.
I also typically hate the heel ref stuff, but that Chicana vs Perro match is probably the only match it doesn't bother me all that much. Its timed and placed better than in most places where the ref feels like they they just decide the winner out of nowhere at a certain point sometimes.
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Post by elliott on Sept 5, 2019 20:59:27 GMT -5
I like the 89 match more too. Its better and worked in a style I like more, but I recommended the 83 one here simply because it was the next day. The other two matches I recommended because they're worked similarly to Chinana/MS1
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