|
Post by gramsci on Feb 16, 2023 15:17:18 GMT -5
Bryan said in an interview that they had to do that long sequence of Suplex City because he just turned heel and they needed to find a way for the crowd to root for him without having to break the turn or be presented as a babyface, and it worked. It's a great match but it won't be on my list, I always envisioned this match in my head differently but I guess these are the limits of WWE.
I have been rewatching everything that I could these months and I predict that there will be many changes. Right now I can almost confirm that Hokuto vs. Kandori I and Atlantis vs. Villano III will compete for the top spot on the list. Also, Santito vs. Espanto 8/31/1986 and Danielson vs. Morishima 12/27/2008 will debut on the list and perhaps directly in the Top 10.
These are the matches that were on my list and I know that I will not vote for them this year:
Yuki Ishikawa vs. Carl Greco (BattlArts - 6/1/2008) Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena (WWE - 4/29/2012) Greg Valentine vs. Roddy Piper (NWA - 11/24/1983) Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (CWA - 6/6/1983) Blue Demon Jr vs. Dr Wagner Jr (AAA - 8/3/2019) Terry Funk vs. Jerry Lawler (CWA - 3/23/1981) Walter vs. Darby Allin (EVOLVE - 6/23/2018) Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Super Vader (UWFi - 6/10/1994) CM Punk vs. Eddie Kingston (AEW - 11/13/2021) Yuki Ishikawa & Alexanxer Otsuka vs. Daisuke Ikeda & Takeshi Ono (BattlARTS 10/30/1996) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Morton (JCP - 7/5/1986) Stan Hansen vs. Carlos Colón (CWP - 1/6/1987) El Dandy vs. Angel Azteca (EMLL - 6/1/1990) Terry Funk vs. Harley Race (NWA - 7/1/1977) Terry Funk vs. Stan Hansen (AJPW - 4/14/1983) El Hijo del Santo & Octagon vs. Eddy Guerrero & Love Machine Art Barr (AAA - 11/6/1994) Shinya Hashimoto vs. Genichiro Tenryu (NJPW - 2/17/1994) Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness (ROH - 11/22/2008) Satánico vs. Sangre Chicana (EMLL - 5/26/1989) Tully Blanchard vs. Magnum TA (NWA - 11/28/1985)
|
|
|
Post by lemming on Feb 16, 2023 15:51:48 GMT -5
That's a whole lotta awesome matches you're cutting! Look forward to seeing what makes your list instead (I guess they must be even better...)
|
|
|
Post by KB8 on Feb 16, 2023 16:08:16 GMT -5
So far, these have fallen off, but I'm hoping to get to watch them again before I submit. Wayne Shamrock vs Naoki Sano (UWFi – 5/19/1991) - I think it might be about how long it has been since I've sat down with it in combination with how much more I wound up loving the Suzuki/Sano match. I had this really high at one point and every time I would look at my list I felt compelled to drop it more. This wounds me deeply.
|
|
|
Post by mvz on Feb 16, 2023 17:37:40 GMT -5
Matches like Punk/Lesnar, Bryan/Lesnar, Shield v. Bryan/Kane/Ryback, Bret v. Diesel. Those are all going. I think they’re all great matches and some of the best things the company did and stuff that I really enjoy. But, especially with all the 80s wrestling I’ve been watching, I just don’t see myself having room for those matches. Misawa v. Steve Williams is also going. 4/20/91 as well, Misawa v. Jumbo 6/8/90 is off but 9/1 might be on. I am thinking I will be watching some WWF classics with a more critical eye and that these are matches that may fall the farthest. I’m thinking of Reigns/Lesnar, Cena/Lesnar, Michaels/Foley, and Austin/Angle. I have no doubt they are great but just a hunch that my tastes have changed with a tilt against these. We shall see.
|
|
|
Post by kas on Feb 16, 2023 18:21:34 GMT -5
Looking at my 2021 list, there's a lot I'm considering dropping but these for sure won't make it next time:
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (WWE - 04/05/2009) Manami Toyota Toshiyo Yamada vs Dynamite Kansai Mayumi Ozaki (AJW - 12/06/1993) Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (WCW - 04/02/1989) Terry Funk vs Bob Orton Junior (Southwest - 05/26/1983) Atlantis vs Villano III (CMLL - 03/17/2000) Manami Toyota vs Akira Hokuto (AJW - 02/09/1995) Zeus vs Kento Miyahara (AJPW - 07/29/2018) Hiromu Takahashi vs Taiji Ishimori (NJPW - 06/04/2018) Io Shirai vs Mayu Iwatani (STARDOM - 12/22/2016) Toshiaki Kawada vs Satoshi Kojima (AJPW - 02/16/2005) Canis Lupus vs Trauma I (IWRG - 09/05/2016) Jumbo Tsuruta vs Mitsuharu Misawa (AJPW - 06/08/1990) Mitsuharu Misawa vs Steve Williams (AJPW - 07/28/1994) Eddy Guerrero Love Machine vs El Hijo Del Santo Octagon (AAA - 11/06/1994)
|
|
|
Post by [Darren] on Feb 16, 2023 23:20:52 GMT -5
Cena/Lesnar is currently my #4 overall. Michaels/Mankind and Lesnar/Reigns will both be in my top 50. Those ones are exceptional matches from the company.
|
|
|
Post by [Darren] on Feb 16, 2023 23:24:01 GMT -5
I just do not get Bryan vs Lesnar at all. I couldn't even tell Bryan was supposed to be the heel. Major disappointment Bryan/Lesnar is a match I love in spite of everything. it succeeds in a time period where everything in the company was working against it succeeding. I just don’t think it has a place in context of a list like this anymore v
|
|
|
Post by Cap on Feb 18, 2023 9:49:16 GMT -5
So far, these have fallen off, but I'm hoping to get to watch them again before I submit. Wayne Shamrock vs Naoki Sano (UWFi – 5/19/1991) - I think it might be about how long it has been since I've sat down with it in combination with how much more I wound up loving the Suzuki/Sano match. I had this really high at one point and every time I would look at my list I felt compelled to drop it more. This wounds me deeply. I'll watch it again before I turn the project in, so I might turn around on this.
As for Brock vs Bryan, I still think the match is absolutely awesome. The heel v heel part of it was strange for sure, but they pulled it of and told a solid story in the ring. Maybe Darren's point about it over-delivering and not holding up as elite over time is what I'm feeling about it and why I don't have it on my list anymore, but I still think it is perfect for what it was and delivers a lot of rewatch value. Brock bouncing around and selling like he did for Dragon was a treat as well
|
|
|
Post by [Darren] on Feb 18, 2023 12:14:18 GMT -5
It’s a perfect little match and it ultimately succeeded at being a great heel v heel non title match with 2 days build and a beloved babyface just turning heel. The whole thing is awkward as hell but they put they two best guys in the company together and they killed it.
|
|
|
Post by [Darren] on Feb 18, 2023 12:15:29 GMT -5
But yes. It’s getting dropped from the list. As the landscape changed it feels more like a cool thing that happened than something to be canonized in a project like this.
|
|
|
Post by Cap on Feb 18, 2023 12:23:24 GMT -5
But I also think it works in a vacuum. I mean most of the matches I have in my top 100 are being judged without much (or any) attention to the build or context. That is pretty important to me when I'm voting for a match. You can pop it on and get everything that is going on easily. The quick build doesn't even really affect my opinion in either direction because it i just a solid story in the ring. Danielson made you want to see Brock get his hands on him. Then Brock made you feel sorry/concern for Danielson. Then they both made you believe Danielson had a shot at winning. Finally they punctuated it in a way that made total sense for the story they told. It was a pretty intricate little achievement. It is a cool thing that happened (because I never thought it would), but it also happens to be a dope ass match. I do think it belongs in the conversation, just not on my list at this time.
|
|
|
Post by [Darren] on Feb 18, 2023 13:08:11 GMT -5
But I also think it works in a vacuum. I mean most of the matches I have in my top 100 are being judged without much (or any) attention to the build or context. That is pretty important to me when I'm voting for a match. You can pop it on and get everything that is going on easily. The quick build doesn't even really affect my opinion in either direction because it i just a solid story in the ring. Danielson made you want to see Brock get his hands on him. Then Brock made you feel sorry/concern for Danielson. Then they both made you believe Danielson had a shot at winning. Finally they punctuated it in a way that made total sense for the story they told. It was a pretty intricate little achievement. It is a cool thing that happened (because I never thought it would), but it also happens to be a dope ass match. I do think it belongs in the conversation, just not on my list at this time. Absolutely I think the strength of the match is that it succeeds in a vacuum. The larger scope can help add color but the vacuum it where its strengths lie. Because the overall surroundings of the match are so weird.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Feb 18, 2023 13:27:41 GMT -5
I watched it in a vacuum, it's like a 3 star match.
|
|
|
Post by Cap on Feb 19, 2023 10:09:23 GMT -5
This is the least surprising thing I've heard in some time haha.
|
|
|
Post by elliott on Feb 19, 2023 12:36:35 GMT -5
The match is probably a lot better in 2013ish before Brock if they model it after the CM Punk match before Brock is doing the suplex city bullshit
|
|