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Post by joeg on Apr 29, 2019 3:19:02 GMT -5
The other Hansen/Kobashi match we are all talking about is the Korakuen Hall handheld from Champion Carnival 93 right? The one with the batshit crazy finish where Kobashi comes off the top rope and eats a lariat.
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Post by Cap on Apr 29, 2019 5:40:09 GMT -5
The other Hansen/Kobashi match we are all talking about is the Korakuen Hall handheld from Champion Carnival 93 right? The one with the batshit crazy finish where Kobashi comes off the top rope and eats a lariat. Yes. That would be it. I had it in my top 10. So so good.
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Post by microstatistics on Apr 29, 2019 13:07:29 GMT -5
The best Hansen/Kobashi match is the CC94 match because it sets up the Hansen rib injury for the epic Taue match
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Post by microstatistics on Apr 29, 2019 15:17:39 GMT -5
Someone should post the results to reddit or something to see the reaction. Hell, I might just do it.
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Post by nintendologic on Apr 29, 2019 16:42:58 GMT -5
I just noticed that my vote for Hashimoto/Yamazaki doesn't appear to have been counted. It was #40 on my ballot, but I don't see it anywhere on the list of matches that received votes. It's not a big deal since it didn't have any impact on the final outcome, but someone might want to double-check to make sure there were no other issues with my ballot.
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Post by andylfc on Apr 29, 2019 17:13:31 GMT -5
The best Hansen/Kobashi match is the CC94 match because it sets up the Hansen rib injury for the epic Taue match Is that the Hansen/Kobashi match with Hansen throwing a table onto Kobashi on the outside? I just remember watching it on a comp tape way back in the mid 90's. That's one I will need to revisit.
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Post by microstatistics on Apr 29, 2019 17:42:42 GMT -5
It's possible, I haven't seen it in ages. 4/10/94 is the date I think.
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Post by microstatistics on Apr 29, 2019 17:43:45 GMT -5
I just noticed that my vote for Hashimoto/Yamazaki doesn't appear to have been counted. It was #40 on my ballot, but I don't see it anywhere on the list of matches that received votes. It's not a big deal since it didn't have any impact on the final outcome, but someone might want to double-check to make sure there were no other issues with my ballot. Fixed. It was calculated correctly and everything, it's just all the matches with 61 points weren't transferred to the master list for some reason.
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Post by elliott on Apr 29, 2019 17:50:51 GMT -5
Someone should post the results to reddit or something to see the reaction. Hell, I might just do it. Dooooo it.
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Post by pterois on Apr 29, 2019 19:53:36 GMT -5
I expect those reactions : Where is Michaels vs Taker from Wrestlemania 25 ? Okada vs Omega should be in the top 10. I've just watched a Kiyoshi Tamura match from this list, it must be a mitstake, it's a mma match, not a wrestling match. No Dynamite Kid vs Tiger Mask ? No PWG match ? Where is Triple H vs The Undertaker ?
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Post by elliott on Apr 29, 2019 21:09:24 GMT -5
Well, I watched Bull vs Kandori again and it finally knocked my socks off. Mark it down for next year.
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Post by prowresblog on Apr 29, 2019 21:36:05 GMT -5
Hey, a place where I'm not banned from. I really don't agree with Kobashi/Misawa '97 being ranked so highly. You can see my review of it here: prowresblog.blogspot.com/2013/12/ajpw-1201997-triple-crown-kenta-kobashi.htmlThis is what I said about it: Mitsuharu Misawa beat Kenta Kobashi at 42:05 with a running forearm smash. I honestly didn't like this. Neither guy knew whether they wanted to do a technical match or an AJPW head dropping bonanza, so they just combined the two. They match was most focused on Kobashi working Misawa's arm before it became the usual head drop fest. Kobashi worked it for the entire middle portion of the match but the arm work ended up meaning nothing anyway as Misawa ended up winning with the same injured arm, like I knew he would. The kicking out of the Tiger Driver '91 infuriated me. Following it up with Kobashi getting up from a dragon suplex didn't help matters either. I honestly was starting to think that a Tiger Driver off the building wouldn't have mattered at that point. I also didn't like the length of this match. It went 42 minutes and could have used about 10 minutes or so less. These two didn't need the extra time and all the extra time did was allow things to escalate more than they needed to. It felt like it could have went all night with the way things were going.
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Post by prowresblog on Apr 29, 2019 22:09:19 GMT -5
I do genuinely believe that the amount of top-tier matches has declined post-2000. That's not because of 'modern' wrestling being necessarily worse. It's simply because with the death of the US territories, British promotions and the mess created from the collapse of Joshi and the AJPW split, there's simply far less infrastructure to create great wrestlers, feuds and matches. Like WWE is never going to produce quality at the rate it, Jim Crockett, Mid-South, Continental, Memphis, AWA etc... all did combined when they were all thriving. Everyone works the same style, so no one really stands out anymore.
Why? Because Dave has taught 2(going on 3) generations of people now that nothing else matters in wrestling except how good your match is, when in reality, the match is the least important part of wrestling. It seems like it matters, but it doesn't, just as it doesn't in boxing, MMA or kickboxing either, meanwhile, Hulk knew like 5 moves and made tens of millions.
There's 3 important things in wrestling - in-ring, personality/character and look. Personality/character is the most important. You can make anyone look cool by slapping a nice outfit on them or having them get in shape. You can teach anyone what a 5 star match looks like, since it follows a formula. But it is hard to teach personality and character. Even if you come up with something, people have to believe it. I can't buy Rey Mysterio as a King Kong Bundy or a Superstar Graham. And I can't buy either one of those guys as a Sabu. And a good personality is worth their wait in gold. Take a Bobby Heenan. You could have him be a wrestler, commentator, manager or even a commissioner. Why can he do all of this stuff? Because he can talk. He drew money for 30+ years and if his health had kept up, he could have done it for another 20 more. If you gave me the choice between 5 of the best in-ring guys ever, or 1 Bobby Heenan, I'm taking Heenan all the way without a second guess.
I fantasy book for fun and I've learned a lot from it. Play Total Extreme Wrestling or Fire Pro or just grab a blank word document like I do, and start filling out cards. Quickly, you will see how little you can do with people who can only "have good matches" like most of the internet's favorites now. Try to write promos for people like AJ, Rollins, Omega, Balor or whatever. It's boring. Then, try booking with a more diverse group of characters like Abdullah the Butcher, Verne Gagne, Rey Mysterio, Doink the Clown, a random boxer and Earthquake. It might not all work out, but you know what, it's going to be interesting and different. How the hell would you work a boxer against Earthquake? I dunno, but I'd like to find out. Maybe the boxer would stick and move for a bit and try to tire Quake out. Maybe then Earthquake would try to do splashes on his hand or something, and then finally miss one, then the boxer hits him with a lucky one hitter with the other hand. I can promise you, you will never see a match like that on any WWE, ROH or NJPW show, if nothing else. That's the beauty and fun of wrestling to me, but you won't see any of it, because good matches = wrestling now. While some people dream of matches like Okada vs Cena, I dream of stuff like Doink vs The Undertaker. The story writes itself and would be like nothing else.
And as wrestling appeals to more of a limited audience(despite trying to be more inclusive to all audiences) and does everything it can to not try to offend people, the days of classic angles, matches and characters are gone. People would throw a fit over Shiek, saying he's racist. People nowadays would be turned off by Hacksaw yelling "USA! USA!", while they would probably cheer Nikolai Volkoff. Slate would run articles about how bad wrestling fans are if they booed Gorgeous George. People like Baron Von Raschke wouldn't even be allowed on TV or would be cancelled if they brought him on. So what's left? Comedy and generic stuff. It won't offend anyone, but it ain't gonna excited or interest anyone either.
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Post by microstatistics on Apr 29, 2019 22:09:25 GMT -5
Hey, a place where I'm not banned from. I really don't agree with Kobashi/Misawa '97 being ranked so highly. You can see my review of it here: prowresblog.blogspot.com/2013/12/ajpw-1201997-triple-crown-kenta-kobashi.htmlThis is what I said about it: Mitsuharu Misawa beat Kenta Kobashi at 42:05 with a running forearm smash. I honestly didn't like this. Neither guy knew whether they wanted to do a technical match or an AJPW head dropping bonanza, so they just combined the two. They match was most focused on Kobashi working Misawa's arm before it became the usual head drop fest. Kobashi worked it for the entire middle portion of the match but the arm work ended up meaning nothing anyway as Misawa ended up winning with the same injured arm, like I knew he would. The kicking out of the Tiger Driver '91 infuriated me. Following it up with Kobashi getting up from a dragon suplex didn't help matters either. I honestly was starting to think that a Tiger Driver off the building wouldn't have mattered at that point. I also didn't like the length of this match. It went 42 minutes and could have used about 10 minutes or so less. These two didn't need the extra time and all the extra time did was allow things to escalate more than they needed to. It felt like it could have went all night with the way things were going. You're lucky it fell out of my Top 25, otherwise it would have finished at #1
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Post by prowresblog on Apr 29, 2019 22:28:47 GMT -5
Hey, a place where I'm not banned from. I really don't agree with Kobashi/Misawa '97 being ranked so highly. You can see my review of it here: prowresblog.blogspot.com/2013/12/ajpw-1201997-triple-crown-kenta-kobashi.htmlThis is what I said about it: Mitsuharu Misawa beat Kenta Kobashi at 42:05 with a running forearm smash. I honestly didn't like this. Neither guy knew whether they wanted to do a technical match or an AJPW head dropping bonanza, so they just combined the two. They match was most focused on Kobashi working Misawa's arm before it became the usual head drop fest. Kobashi worked it for the entire middle portion of the match but the arm work ended up meaning nothing anyway as Misawa ended up winning with the same injured arm, like I knew he would. The kicking out of the Tiger Driver '91 infuriated me. Following it up with Kobashi getting up from a dragon suplex didn't help matters either. I honestly was starting to think that a Tiger Driver off the building wouldn't have mattered at that point. I also didn't like the length of this match. It went 42 minutes and could have used about 10 minutes or so less. These two didn't need the extra time and all the extra time did was allow things to escalate more than they needed to. It felt like it could have went all night with the way things were going. You're lucky it fell out of my Top 25, otherwise it would have finished at #1 I just can't put a match as the GOAT when a large portion of it really didn't have any meaning. GOAT matches to me should always be as close to perfect as possible and as good as it can possibly get, or else it really isn't the greatest ever, is it?
I don't do ratings and this is the best match ever anymore. It's just not fair. The greatest squash match ever could never be 5 stars despite knocking it out of the park, because it would be too short and one-sided. The greatest comedy match ever would never be in consideration, even if it was entertaining. Random matches that were only given 10 minutes because of time delays can't possibly hit the formula needed for a high rating even if they did the best they could with the limited time they had, etc.
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